Apocripha

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Hi, im fairly new here and i have a question: What is the apocripha(I think that’s how one spells it anyway) I was reading this novel about apologetics and in it, one of the character mentions that he is looking in the apocrypha which catholics include in their bible but not protestants. I believe the character was talking about the apocrypha not being present in the KJV of the bible. so what were the protestants in that book reffering to?
 
The_Confused_1 said:
Hi, im fairly new here and i have a question: What is the apocripha(I think that’s how one spells it anyway) I was reading this novel about apologetics and in it, one of the character mentions that he is looking in the apocrypha which catholics include in their bible but not protestants. I believe the character was talking about the apocrypha not being present in the KJV of the bible. so what were the protestants in that book reffering to?
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It’s Apocryphal. The word itself is misleading because it means hidden books.

It is the Septuagint, the Greek OT text written in 6 to 1st BC. It was written by Hellenistic Jews in Alexandria, Egypt.

Here is a history of the Septuagint:

newadvent.org/cathen/13722a.htm
 
The_Confused_1 said:
Hi, im fairly new here and i have a question: What is the apocripha(I think that’s how one spells it anyway) I was reading this novel about apologetics and in it, one of the character mentions that he is looking in the apocrypha which catholics include in their bible but not protestants. I believe the character was talking about the apocrypha not being present in the KJV of the bible. so what were the protestants in that book reffering to?
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I just learned about this in Religion 😛 lol It’s the list of books that the Council of Hippo decided should not be in the bible, they are hidden…if i remember right. i might have to check that out. =/
 
bluebabi212 said:
I just learned about this in Religion 😛 lol It’s the list of books that the Council of Hippo decided should not be in the bible, they are hidden…if i remember right. i might have to check that out. =/
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Sorry but that is wrong. These are books which were and remain part of Holy Scripture. The Catholic Church compiled the Bible and gave it to the world.
When the heretic Martin Luther broke from the Church he produced a badly translated bible of his own and took out books which did not agree with his own heretical beliefs.
 
We call these 7 books the deuterocanonicals and they are in the approved canon of the Bible. These books are all Old Testament books–Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus (or, Sirach), and Baruch. The Church decided these books were inspired as early as the Council of Rome in 382. (Council of Hippo was later and it agreed) I believe the Council of Trent made a binding official decision on the canon in the mid -1500’s.

They are called apocrypha by protestants because they consider them to be uninspired. This was originally based on the authority of Martin Luther and friends:rolleyes: . He also wanted the Epistle of James and the Apocalypse dropped but he couldn’t come up with a good enough excuse. To justify the dropping of these 7 books, which support Catholic teaching, Luther referred to the Jewish canon which does not contain these books.

Manny is right, the Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Jewish OT and it does contain these 7 books. From what I have seen, the Jews had not officially decided their canon until after their temple had been destroyed (after Jesus). They decided these books were not inspired for a variety of reasons. Here is a site that lists the reasons for their removal. I can’t say I’ve done enough research to agree with this site that the Jews were motivated to strip these books from their canon because of the new Christian Church. What I can say is that if I were an early Christian I would not give a darn what the Jews, who had just rejected Jesus, decided for their canon.
 
bluebabi212 said:
I just learned about this in Religion 😛 lol It’s the list of books that the Council of Hippo decided should not be in the bible, they are hidden…if i remember right. i might have to check that out. =/
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You better go back and study some more. 🙂 Both the Council of Rome and the Council of Hippo approved these books.
 
I think we need to clarify terms. Apocrypha means different things to Catholics and Protestants.

For Protestants, the Old Testament Apocrypha refers to those books that were written or extant in Greek and constituted those books in the Septuagint but not in the Hebrew canon set by Jamnia in AD 90. These are Tobit, Judith, Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Sirach, Wisdom, 1, 2, 3, and 4 Maccabees, 1 and 2 Esdras, The Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and some Greek-extant portions of the books of Daniel (Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Azariah & the Song of the Three Young Men) and Esther.

For Catholics the books of Tobit, Judith, Baruch (with the Letter of Jeremiah included), Sirach, Wisdom, 1 and 2 Maccabees are considered inspired, and hence are not, for Catholics, apocrypha. They are called Deuterocanonicals. For Catholics, the Apocrypha are 1 and 2 Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 and 4 Maccabees.
 
The_Confused_1 said:
I believe the character was talking about the apocrypha not being present in the KJV of the bible. so what were the protestants in that book reffering to?
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Actually the Apocrypha was in the original 1611 King James’ bible as edifying Christian reading, but not good for promoting doctrines. They were printed in every Protestant Bible until the mid 19th century in this country. However, they are still printed in the Protestant Bibles of Europe. The King James’ Bible printed in England is still printed with the Apocrypha in an appendix between the Old and New Testaments. The vast majority of the church held them to be indeed inspired works after the councils of Hippo and Carthage. The eccumenical council of Florence in the 15th century lists them as inspired works right along with the rest of the old testament. When the reformation came, they came underfire due to how they support catholic doctrines. The council of Trent declared the canon in existence since the 4th century to be inspired and binding (meaning we are not to question it.) There was no adding of books to the bible, we just declared all the books that were in the bible inspired writings.
 
porthos11 said:
I think we need to clarify terms. Apocrypha means different things to Catholics and Protestants.

For Protestants, the Old Testament Apocrypha refers to those books that were written or extant in Greek and constituted those books in the Septuagint but not in the Hebrew canon set by Jamnia in AD 90. These are Tobit, Judith, Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Sirach, Wisdom, 1, 2, 3, and 4 Maccabees, 1 and 2 Esdras, The Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and some Greek-extant portions of the books of Daniel (Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Azariah & the Song of the Three Young Men) and Esther.

For Catholics the books of Tobit, Judith, Baruch (with the Letter of Jeremiah included), Sirach, Wisdom, 1 and 2 Maccabees are considered inspired, and hence are not, for Catholics, apocrypha. They are called Deuterocanonicals. For Catholics, the Apocrypha are 1 and 2 Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 and 4 Maccabees.
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You are correct

👍
More information found through this link.
newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm
 
Actually the first citation of any authoritative means was the council of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus…

"The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

***It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. ***
*The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books. ***
**Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. ***
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This list of 46 Old Testament and 27 New Testament books was reconfirmed in the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D… St. Jerome’s translation, "The Latin Vulgate", is to this day, the official Bible of the Catholic Church. The Bibles which Catholics use today, have the same 46 books in the Old Testament as they have had since before the beginning of Christianity…"
home.inreach.com/bstanley/canon.htm
 
porthos11 said:
I think we need to clarify terms. Apocrypha means different things to Catholics and Protestants.

For Protestants, the Old Testament Apocrypha refers to those books that were written or extant in Greek and constituted those books in the Septuagint but not in the Hebrew canon set by Jamnia in AD 90. These are Tobit, Judith, Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Sirach, Wisdom, 1, 2, 3, and 4 Maccabees, 1 and 2 Esdras, The Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and some Greek-extant portions of the books of Daniel (Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, and The Prayer of Azariah & the Song of the Three Young Men) and Esther.

For Catholics the books of Tobit, Judith, Baruch (with the Letter of Jeremiah included), Sirach, Wisdom, 1 and 2 Maccabees are considered inspired, and hence are not, for Catholics, apocrypha. They are called Deuterocanonicals. For Catholics, the Apocrypha are 1 and 2 Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 and 4 Maccabees.
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Thank you. 👍 Adoption by some Catholics of the Protestant label for a portion of the inspired Holy Scriptures has always bothered me. I’m a fan of preciseness. 🙂 Is there a name for other extra-canonical early Christian writing like the Sheperd of Hermas or the Didache or can they also be labeled Apocrypha?
 
Below are some websites about the 7 deutercanonical books (Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Judith, Tobit, I & II Maccabees–Protestants call these books “apocrypha.”). The Church has always accepted these 7 books as inspired scripture.

Protestants who reject these 7 books cite St Jerome as an authority who questioned their canonicity. Jerome, however, was not a Pope, and he did include these books in his Latin Vulgate Bible. There is a previous thread in the Catholic Answers Forum which shows that Jerome did accept the Church’s position that these 7 books should be included in the canon of Scripture.

The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=28

The Deuterocanonical Books

canapologetics.net/html/deuterocanonicals.html

5 Myths about 7 Books MARK SHEA

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0120.html

Major Church Pronouncements on the Bible (shows all the Church Councils that approved the 7 deutercanonical books in the canon of Scripture). At the Council of Trent in the 16th century, the canon of OT and NT received final definition; however every Church council since the Council of Rome in AD 382 has approved books in the OT (including the 7 deuterocanonical books) and NT identical to that listed at the Council of Trent.

catholicapologetics.org/ap031100.htm

Online Gutenberg Bible from AD 1455. Proof that the Bible contained the 7 deutercanonical books before the Reformation when Luther took them out of the OT canon and put them in an appendix:

prodigi.bl.uk/treasures/gutenberg/search.asp
 
Bishopite said:
Actually the first citation of any authoritative means was the council of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus…

"The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

***It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. ***
***The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books. ***
**Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. ***
Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This list of 46 Old Testament and 27 New Testament books was reconfirmed in the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D… St. Jerome’s translation, "The Latin Vulgate", is to this day, the official Bible of the Catholic Church. The Bibles which Catholics use today, have the same 46 books in the Old Testament as they have had since before the beginning of Christianity…"
home.inreach.com/bstanley/canon.htm
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Question: Where is Baruch in the above quote? Does it have a different name?
 
Catholics have the deuterocanon in the Bible. The DC includes books in the Old and New testament. the real apocrypha are books like the gospel of thomas, etc.
 
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