Apolegetic Gear?

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cestusdei:
Folks, I remind you that ri is a dissenter. He denies the infallibility of the Church and the Pope. He constantly and deliberately confuses infallibility and impeccability. He denies the entire Pauline corpus. He is convinced that the Church has erred and is apostate. And he believes that he and only he understands what Jesus really wanted. In other words he is a Protestant who pretends to be Catholic. He has heard all your answers before and will ignore any reply you make. Then he will repeat himself endlessly. When you refute him he will then ignore you and go on to someone else to spread his brand of anti-Catholicism.
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Ah. So he believes the Gates of Hell have prevailed over the Church. I wonder if he wants to buy some BobCatholic brand Yarmulkes? (I can make lots of $$$MONEY$$$ this way) 🙂
 
Bob, he isn’t buying he is selling. And yes he does believe the gates of hell prevailed and that Peter and the Popes are satan. Just ask him.
 
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BobCatholic:
Ah. So he believes the Gates of Hell have prevailed over the Church. I wonder if he wants to buy some BobCatholic brand Yarmulkes? (I can make lots of $$$MONEY$$$ this way) 🙂
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Bob, Cestus will not say what I actually believe, which in reference to the Gtaes of Hell thing is that church is based on such a strong foundation>Jesus, that it doesn’t have to fear that getting better indicates that it has allowed the gates of hell to prevail.

You will notice that cestus will continue to attack me and not the premise that the church can better itself. Despite what he says, I do understand the difference between impeccability and infallibility, however unlike he, I do not feel that having a lack of impeccability is a justifiable excuse for poor behaviour. As for infallibility, its a concept that is only required if one doesn’t have credibility.

So should we be a church that emphasises the wisdom and beauty of what Jesus taught in a credible manner, or should we be a church that survives by virtue of its authority?

Peace
 
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ricatholic:
So should we be a church that emphasises the wisdom and beauty of what Jesus taught in a credible manner, or should we be a church that survives by virtue of its authority?
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We should be a church that does neither. We should be a church that follows God as he IS. We do not need to placate the masses with sweet talk to entice them to join or whatever (choice 1 of the sentence above) or browbeat those who choose not to follow to force them to (choice 2).

We ought to follow the church with the infallible bible and infallible interpretation. This ought to LEND credibility. If you perceive the Church is credible, then you are right; don’t worry about infallibility. If you perceive the Church is not, the fact of infallibility should reassure you. However it IS infallible whether you perceive the credibility or not.
 
ri, by what authority do you tell us what is true and what Jesus really meant? How do we know you are right and the Catholic Church has been so wrong for 2000 years?
 
Does the strength of the doctrines enable them to be protected from being responsible for their actions?

The answer is obviously NO. However, the question does not deal with the real issue. To give you an analogy, knowing all the traffic rules does not make me an excellent driver automatically. I can be a good driver by following all rules to the letter. And I would be an even better driver if I drive diffensively. Just because some police officers are criminals it doesn’t mean we should do away with traffic regulations or re-interprete them. They should even be more accountable to their actions because they know better.

What amazes me about the Catholic Church is that it is full of sinners from cardinals down to the people sitting in the front pew. And yet the Church has not conformed or adjusted her moral teachings in order to be acceptable by the general population. The Church has always been able to discern what was good or bad in a culture, bends down to the people she is evangelizing in order to lift their views and spirit up to see and taste heaven on earth. And I know this is not accomplished by human wisdom. Only the Holy Spirit can keep the Church united. People sometimes forget that there are different rites within the Catholic Church worldwide and still manages to be One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. If that is not a miracle, what is. I tell my separated brethren to pray for the miracle of unity. Then again, someone said to me that choice fosters quality!?!?!?!. I thought I was talking about God, not the economy!

Kidane Mehret ora pro nobis
(Our Lady of Perpetual Help, pray for us)
 
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jpusateri:
We should be a church that does neither. We should be a church that follows God as he IS. We do not need to placate the masses with sweet talk to entice them to join or whatever (choice 1 of the sentence above) or browbeat those who choose not to follow to force them to (choice 2).

We ought to follow the church with the infallible bible and infallible interpretation. This ought to LEND credibility. If you perceive the Church is credible, then you are right; don’t worry about infallibility. If you perceive the Church is not, the fact of infallibility should reassure you. However it IS infallible whether you perceive the credibility or not.
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J, let me ask a question about what you refer to as choice 1, why do you suppose that if the church leads by example, that it would be sweet talking?

Perhaps, that speaks to the crux of the issue. If Jesus’ message of love is presented as just being lovey dovey and not in the context of the discipline required to make that love universal, then it loses its appeal to those who want more than to just be told to love their neighbor and treat the least like they may be Jesus.

To those, having an authority tell them that they have made the right choice in beliefs must be reassuring.

Peace
 
KidaneMehret said:
Does the strength of the doctrines enable them to be protected from being responsible for their actions?

The answer is obviously NO. However, the question does not deal with the real issue. To give you an analogy, knowing all the traffic rules does not make me an excellent driver automatically. I can be a good driver by following all rules to the letter. And I would be an even better driver if I drive diffensively. Just because some police officers are criminals it doesn’t mean we should do away with traffic regulations or re-interprete them. They should even be more accountable to their actions because they know better.

What amazes me about the Catholic Church is that it is full of sinners from cardinals down to the people sitting in the front pew. And yet the Church has not conformed or adjusted her moral teachings in order to be acceptable by the general population. The Church has always been able to discern what was good or bad in a culture, bends down to the people she is evangelizing in order to lift their views and spirit up to see and taste heaven on earth. And I know this is not accomplished by human wisdom. Only the Holy Spirit can keep the Church united. People sometimes forget that there are different rites within the Catholic Church worldwide and still manages to be One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. If that is not a miracle, what is. I tell my separated brethren to pray for the miracle of unity. Then again, someone said to me that choice fosters quality!?!?!?!. I thought I was talking about God, not the economy!

Kidane Mehret ora pro nobis
(Our Lady of Perpetual Help, pray for us)
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Oh. I like this!! I wish we still had the reputation points because I would have left you a good note.

:clapping: Kudos! Kudos!
 
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