Apologetic Train Recks

[clmowry]

Many of the threads that I watch and occasionally kibitz on here look to me to be “train recks” from the start.

I know they are going to be a mess, but I just can’t look away.

The consistent “fatal flaw” seems to be arguing a point from “the other guys” set of rules when you know in advance that those rules dom the argument to failure.

For example presenting “proof” of Christianity to someone who does not accept the Bible as Historically or Theologically accurate.

Presenting “proof” of th Perpetual virginity to someone who maintains a Sola Scriputra view and rejects the teaching of the Church and the writings to the ECFs.

“Proving” that Womens ordination is something the Church “does not have the Authority” to do to someone who does not accept Church Authority.

It seems to me that in each case we give authority to the “doubter” to limit the conversation to exclude apeals to that on which the belief is primarily based.

In the end your left with a case hat says: Christianity does not contradict rationality or logic, The Perpetual Virginity does not Contradict Scriptue, An all Male Priesthood does not contradict Scripture or Tradition.

You can never pull “explicit” evidence from the sources your limited too, so the train wreck is inevitable.

So should the “first” objective be to show that a particular belief is “not opposed” to the “accepted supporting data” or should it be to establish “another suporting data set” as legitimate?

i.e. If you can’t get a non Christian to “eventually” accept the testimony of the Bible (or the ECFs or the Church) then what’s the point?

Chuck

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think most threads do try to use the rules of the opponent - at least not for long. Most of us simply state what we believe and why, and present our own view of things.

 

[clmowry]

No I agree. I didn’t mean to imply that all or most of the threads go this way.

But several, usually, the very very long, threads seem to be the ones that follow the pattern of:

See here…this is true…

I don’t accept that sorce…

See here…this is true…

I don’t accept that source…

etc. etc.

It’s very similar to the

Look this verse says “A”…

No this verse says “B”…

No this vers says “A”…

Conversation that usally ends with the my Holy Spirit can beat up Your Holy Spirit…silliness that comes out of Sola Scriptura.

The threads go round and round for a couple hundred posts with no apparent progress.

it seems that in order to break the stalemate…rather than putting forth what we believe, we need to establish another mutually acceptable “authority” or “data source” inorder to overcome the different interpretations.

If you can’t do that…then it all becomes I’m right…Your wrong…and round and round we go.

I of couse can’t look away. I know it’s what’s coming, but I keep reading all the posts anyway, hoping against experience that something different will happen.

Chuck

I don’t think most threads do try to use the rules of the opponent - at least not for long. Most of us simply state what we believe and why, and present our own view of things.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Try starting on what they do agree on.

Then state differences.

Decide on if differences are worthy of something uncharitable.

If so state concerns

If not then let it go, wasnt it Paul that said dont force someone with your opinion if it makes them stumble?

General Thoughts

avoid calling people heritics, not christians. No matter what the Catholic church teaches about it being the first and only one, maybe lighten up on that as it hurts and it kills discussion right there, (see Paul)

And if your were told the Catholic church is the what of you know where, realise thats as good as a racist comment, and hurts. (see Paul)

Try saying Oh I see what you say there, I dont agree but I understand your view.

Instead of “guessing” what a particular group thinks go goggle it and see the statement of faith or the catechism (sorry spelling) then the guessing and endless myth spreading may stop.

Christians regarding Atheists, dont quote scripture or rules of faith. State what you think in your words. Whats your own thoughts.

Atheists if we do that then give us a break, not only Christians use scripture as information, just about everyone does, so when we make a point regarding that, please dont bring up well God doesnt exist anyway.

this what your after??