Apologetic: Why the Rapture is Unbiblical Based on the Bible

[TimothyH]

Many cite 1 Thessalonians 4 as the basis for a "Rapture, or a “Catching up” of true believers to meet Jesus in the sky and be taken to Heaven.

The idea of the “Catching up of believers” however, is not a proper understanding of what Paul was referring to as he wrote to people living in the city of Thessalonica almost two thousand years ago.

We have to always remember that the authors of scripture were writing to specific audiences, and the words and phrases they used had specific meaning to those audiences. We don’t always understand the context because we don’t live in their times and in their culture. When we interperet any scripture, the first thing we have to do is to understand the meaning of the words as the author intended it and as his audience would have understood it.

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 thessalonians 4:16)

This was a reference to the practice of a population “going out to meet” a visiting dignitary or member of the royal court who was coming to visit their city. They would leave the relative safety of the city and “go out to meet” the visiting party to escort them back to the city as honored guests. One always “Went out to meet” a beloved relative who was coming to visit, or an honored guest. Often the visitor would send a messenger ahead to announce that he was soon to arive, to give his host an opportunity to “Come out to meet” him. To not do so was a sign of disrespect. It was also a phrase which meant that two enemies were to do battle.

The phrase “out to meet” appears twenty nine times in the Bible.

*After his [Abraham’s] return from the defeat of Ched-or-lao’mer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). (Genesis 14:17)

Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and did obeisance and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent. (Exodus 18:7)

Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. (Judges 11:34)

And Asa went out to meet him, and they drew up their lines of battle in the valley of Zeph’athah at Mare’shah. (2 Chronicles 14:10)

And behold, all the city came out to meet Jesus; and when they saw him, they begged him to leave their neighborhood. (Matthew 8:34)

So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!” (John 12:13)*

That’s how the audience to whom Paul was writing would have understood his words, in the context of the very common practice of “Going out to meet” en enemy in battle or, as was the case with Jesus’ trimphant entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, to escort him back to the city as an honored guest - the King of Israel!

Remember that Paul was a great scholor of the Hebrew Scriptures. He drew heavily on the Hebrew Scriptures as he wrote to the Christians in his letters, and he was making direct reference to the practice of “Going out to meet” a king and escorting him back to the city.

The city they would escort Jesus to was the “Heavenly Jerusalem” or the “New Jerusalem.”

No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering. (Hebrews 12:22)

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:1-2)

Jewish belief at the time of Jesus was that when the Messiah came, he would physically transform the earth. The earth would be physically changed, Heaven would exist on earth and God would dwell with man. The Heavenly Jerusalem, the new Heaven and new earth is where those who go out to meet Jesus would have escorted their King.

The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” (Revelation 21:5)

It’s not about literally flying up to Heaven with Jesus for 1000 years. It’s about “Going out to meet” our King who is returning the same way he came, and escorting him back to a creation which will be radically transformed at the end of time - a new creation where we will get our glorified bodies and where God will dwell with man.

I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them. (Revelation 21:3)

The “Catching up” of believers is simply not a correct undersanding of scripture based the intended meaning of the authors and how their audience would have understood it. If you told the people in Thessalonica that Paul was talking about them literally flying up to meet Jesus, that there would be a catching up of all believers into the sky, they would have looked at you like you had three heads!

-Tim-

 

[Julia_Mae]

Sounds right to me.

 

[eightandsand]

Many cite 1 Thessalonians 4 as the basis for a "Rapture, or a “Catching up” of true believers to meet Jesus in the sky and be taken to Heaven.

The idea of the “Catching up of believers” however, is not a proper understanding of what Paul was referring to as he wrote to people living in the city of Thessalonica almost two thousand years ago.

We have to always remember that the authors of scripture were writing to specific audiences, and the words and phrases they used had specific meaning to those audiences. We don’t always understand the context because we don’t live in their times and in their culture. When we interperet any scripture, the first thing we have to do is to understand the meaning of the words as the author intended it and as his audience would have understood it.

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 thessalonians 4:16)

This was a reference to the practice of a population “going out to meet” a visiting dignitary or member of the royal court who was coming to visit their city. They would leave the relative safety of the city and “go out to meet” the visiting party to escort them back to the city as honored guests. One always “Went out to meet” a beloved relative who was coming to visit, or an honored guest. Often the visitor would send a messenger ahead to announce that he was soon to arive, to give his host an opportunity to “Come out to meet” him. To not do so was a sign of disrespect. It was also a phrase which meant that two enemies were to do battle.

The phrase “out to meet” appears twenty nine times in the Bible.

After his [Abraham’s] return from the defeat of Ched-or-lao’mer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). (Genesis 14:17)

Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and did obeisance and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent. (Exodus 18:7)

Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. (Judges 11:34)

And Asa went out to meet him, and they drew up their lines of battle in the valley of Zeph’athah at Mare’shah. (2 Chronicles 14:10)

And behold, all the city came out to meet Jesus; and when they saw him, they begged him to leave their neighborhood. (Matthew 8:34)

So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!” (John 12:13)

That’s how the audience to whom Paul was writing would have understood his words, in the context of the very common practice of “Going out to meet” en enemy in battle or, as was the case with Jesus’ trimphant entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, to escort him back to the city as an honored guest - the King of Israel!

Remember that Paul was a great scholor of the Hebrew Scriptures. He drew heavily on the Hebrew Scriptures as he wrote to the Christians in his letters, and he was making direct reference to the practice of “Going out to meet” a king and escorting him back to the city.

The city they would escort Jesus to was the “Heavenly Jerusalem” or the “New Jerusalem.”

No, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering. (Hebrews 12:22)

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:1-2)

Jewish belief at the time of Jesus was that when the Messiah came, he would physically transform the earth. The earth would be physically changed, Heaven would exist on earth and God would dwell with man. The Heavenly Jerusalem, the new Heaven and new earth is where those who go out to meet Jesus would have escorted their King.

The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” (Revelation 21:5)

It’s not about literally flying up to Heaven with Jesus for 1000 years. It’s about “Going out to meet” our King who is returning the same way he came, and escorting him back to a creation which will be radically transformed at the end of time - a new creation where we will get our glorified bodies and where God will dwell with man.

I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them. (Revelation 21:3)

The “Catching up” of believers is simply not a correct undersanding of scripture based the intended meaning of the authors and how their audience would have understood it. If you told the people in Thessalonica that Paul was talking about them literally flying up to meet Jesus, that there would be a catching up of all believers into the sky, they would have looked at you like you had three heads!

-Tim-

Yeah, the notion of “the Rapture” has been condemned by the Church. It is simply another modified, false take on “the millennium”, in the vein of Chiliasm or millennarianism which are heresies accepted by some who profess a belief in a *carnal and visible reign of Christ for a period lasting literally *one thousand years. The Holy See has indeed pronounced an anathema against a false or modified doctrine of the Millennium. She has told us what the Millennium is not and it doesn’t involve a “Rapture.” But at the same time, she has not made a definitive pronouncement on what exactly the Millennium is. The Holy See has never condemned the Apostolic Father’s Tradition in this regard. Indeed, the Apostolic Fathers themselves - Papias and St. Justin Martyr, for instance - bear witness to the orthodoxy of the unmodified doctrines on the “temporal kingdom” handed down to them from the Apostles.

 

[Holly3278]

I have wondered this for a while and it is slightly related. When Jesus returns, will He come all the way down to the earth and then the final judgment will occur on earth? Also, when the Bible speaks of a new Heavens and a new Earth, does that mean that there will be two different worlds which we can visit in eternity, Heaven and Earth, though they are new?

 

[TimothyH]

I have wondered this for a while and it is slightly related. When Jesus returns, will He come all the way down to the earth and then the final judgment will occur on earth? Also, when the Bible speaks of a new Heavens and a new Earth, does that mean that there will be two different worlds which we can visit in eternity, Heaven and Earth, though they are new?

Jewish belief, not all Jews but many, believed that the Messiah would be a new Moses.

Just as Moses had led Israel on a physical exodus from slavery in Egypt, so the new Moses would lead Israel again on an exodus. The new exodus led by the new Moses would not only be a physical exodus, but one where creation itself would be transformed, and God would dwell with man as he dwelt with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

About eight days after he said this, he took Peter, John, and James and went up the mountain to pray. While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. (Luke 9:28-31)

Many people miss that little part in red. Only Luke’s Gospel tells us that Moses and Elijah were speaking with Jesus about an exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.

I don’t think there will be two worlds, but that the heavens and the seas and the land and all of creation will be transformed. Notice that Moses and Elijah appeared in their glorified bodies, and I think this is a sign pointing to our glorified bodies at the end of time, and God will live with us, just like it says in Revelation. The natural order of creation will be restored. The perfect relationship of creation to man, men to other men, and man to God, just as it was in the Garden of Eden nbefore sin entered the world, will be restored. And God will dwell with man, just like Adam and Eve walked with God in the breezy part of the day.

Some people think I am crazy, but the belief that the Messiah was to be a new Moses was present at the time of Jesus, and the explicit referenct to Jesus accomplishing a new exodus in Jerusalem isn’t something I made up.

Scott Hahn stated in “The Lamb’s Supper” that end of time will be Eucharistic - a new heaven and a new earth will be substituted for the old heaven and earth.

-Tim-

 

[Holly3278]

Jewish belief, not all Jews but many, believed that the Messiah would be a new Moses.

Just as Moses had led Israel on a physical exodus from slavery in Egypt, so the new Moses would lead Israel again on an exodus. The new exodus led by the new Moses would not only be a physical exodus, but one where creation itself would be transformed, and God would dwell with man as he dwelt with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

About eight days after he said this, he took Peter, John, and James and went up the mountain to pray. While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. (Luke 9:28-31)

Many people miss that little part in red. Only Luke’s Gospel tells us that Moses and Elijah were speaking with Jesus about an exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.

I don’t think there will be two worlds, but that the heavens and the seas and the land and all of creation will be transformed. Notice that Moses and Elijah appeared in their glorified bodies, and I think this is a sign pointing to our glorified bodies at the end of time, and God will live with us, just like it says in Revelation. The natural order of creation will be restored. The perfect relationship of creation to man, men to other men, and man to God, just as it was in the Garden of Eden nbefore sin entered the world, will be restored. And God will dwell with man, just like Adam and Eve walked with God in the breezy part of the day.

Some people think I am crazy, but the belief that the Messiah was to be a new Moses was present at the time of Jesus, and the explicit referenct to Jesus accomplishing a new exodus in Jerusalem isn’t something I made up.

Scott Hahn stated in “The Lamb’s Supper” that end of time will be Eucharistic - a new heaven and a new earth will be substituted for the old heaven and earth.

-Tim-

Thanks Tim but I still have the one question. When Jesus returns, will He land on the ground and then judge us or will we all meet Him in the air and be judged somewhere outside of earth?

 

[Julia_Mae]

About eight days after he said this, he took Peter, John, and James and went up the mountain to pray. While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. (Luke 9:28-31)

Many people miss that little part in red. Only Luke’s Gospel tells us that Moses and Elijah were speaking with Jesus about an exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.

I believe this is a reference to Jesus’ coming death on the cross. Luke ties the trip up the mountain to Jesus announcing He would be killed and raised in vss 22, when he says at vs 28 “About 8 days after he said this…” The next day they come down and Jesus heals a child and “While they were all amazed…” He tells them He will be handed over. All of the context of this passage is about Jesus death, with nothing to suggest in any way He was referring to His return in the future.

 

[robwar]

thanks Tim, you always do such a great job!

 

[TimothyH]

I believe this is a reference to Jesus’ coming death on the cross. Luke ties the trip up the mountain to Jesus announcing He would be killed and raised in vss 22, when he says at vs 28 “About 8 days after he said this…” The next day they come down and Jesus heals a child and “While they were all amazed…” He tells them He will be handed over. All of the context of this passage is about Jesus death, with nothing to suggest in any way He was referring to His return in the future.

Thanks Julia.

I agree that it is about his death, and about his ressurection as well.

What the writers of scripture are saying would have been recognizable to their Jewish audience. The exodus from Egypt was the central event in Jewish history. The point of the new exodus is that where Israel’s first exodus under Moses failed, Jesus’ new exodus succeeded.

Moses died on the mountain and did not enter the promised land, but Jesus ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, and gave us a means to do so as well.

The manna which God rained down on the Israelites as food in the desert and the flesh of the quails which blew in on the wind which God gave them to eat in the desert, these stopped. The true bread from heaven however, Jesus’ flesh, is available to us constantly.

Even though they had been released from slavery in Egypt, Israel failed to release their own slaves every seven years as God had commanded, and they kept falling back into sin. Jesus however, gives us a way to be released from slavery to sin.

Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” They answered him, “We are descendants of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How can you say, ‘You will become free’?” Jesus answered them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. A slave does not remain in a household forever, but a son always remains. So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free. (John 8:31-36)

Some of the Jews had totally forgotten about their being slaves in Egypt! That’s how bad it had become.

The point is not what the exodus refers to, but the fact that where Moses and Israel failed in the first exodus, Jesus, the disciples and the Holy Catholic Church succeed in the second exodus. Israel never fully overcame the 400 years of slavery in Egypt, but we can overcome our slavery to sin. I know. I have experienced it myself.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

Maybe tomorrow I’ll post something about being “Left behind.”

-Tim-

 

[EllieH]

Many cite 1 Thessalonians 4 as the basis for a "Rapture, or a “Catching up” of true believers to meet Jesus in the sky and be taken to Heaven.

---

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord*** in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 thessalonians 4:16)This was a reference to the practice of a population “going out to meet” a visiting dignitary or member of the royal court who was coming to visit their city.

-Tim-

I appreciate your effort of using scripture to explain scripture. I have always considered that the art form of exegesis. However, my question is relative to sidestepping some of the implications of the verse to reach your final conclusion. How is that accomplished?

To meet as you point out, has scriptural precedent, however, “in the clouds” and “in the air” must have some influence upon the intended meaning of these verses? They shouldn’t be overlooked as having no influence whatsoever.

To be clear my question is not about specific interpretations per se but simply that shouldn’t our interpretations at least address the components of the verses we seek to interpret? Side stepping makes it appear that we are simply picking and choosing to force the scripture to fit an intended interpretation. Even if we should not agree with the various interpretations is not so significant as that we give them full treatment in the process to convey a sense of intellectual honesty in our efforts. So…how would you address the potential implications of those two sections in the verse that add meaning in some way?

 

[Julia_Mae]

… we can overcome our slavery to sin. I know. I have experienced it myself.

-Tim-

I’m glad you are all enthusiastic, Tim, but we all know it too, we’re Catholic, you see. We know about the connection of the Exodus and the Crucifixion/Resurrection. It isn’t like we are just realizing Jesus and all His early disciples were, for the most part, Jews.

Now, I’m not sure what makes you think any Jew ever forgot the slavery from which they were delivered, as they have Passover once a year to remind them. Also, really, I was simply pointing out that the passage is not about the second coming.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Maybe tomorrow I’ll post something about being “Left behind.”

-Tim-

Maybe you should think about posting in an Evangelical forum where they believe in Tim Laehaye. We’re Catholic. Like you. Mostly.

 

[patrick457]

I’m wondering as to how you would view Ben Witherington III’s interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 5:1-11 as describing the essentially same event from different perspectives, which would obviously put any notions of a ‘Rapture’ out of the picture.

 

[TimothyH]

I appreciate your effort of using scripture to explain scripture. I have always considered that the art form of exegesis. However, my question is relative to sidestepping some of the implications of the verse to reach your final conclusion. How is that accomplished?

To meet as you point out, has scriptural precedent, however, “in the clouds” and “in the air” must have some influence upon the intended meaning of these verses? They shouldn’t be overlooked as having no influence whatsoever.

To be clear my question is not about specific interpretations per se but simply that shouldn’t our interpretations at least address the components of the verses we seek to interpret? Side stepping makes it appear that we are simply picking and choosing to force the scripture to fit an intended interpretation. Even if we should not agree with the various interpretations is not so significant as that we give them full treatment in the process to convey a sense of intellectual honesty in our efforts. So…how would you address the potential implications of those two sections in the verse that add meaning in some way?

It is not a side step. Scripture has to be interpreted as a whole.

And then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory, (Mark 13:26)

When he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him from their sight. While they were looking intently at the sky as he was going, suddenly two men dressed in white garments stood beside them. hey said, “Men of Galilee, why are you standing there looking at the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11)

I’m not picking and choosing anything. There is a strict unity to scripture. From “In the beginning” to “Come Lord Jesus”, it is all one.

Acts tells us that Jesus will return the same way he came, on the clouds, from the air. Jesus himself tells us that it will be so. That Christ ascended Body and Soul into Heaven is dogma.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

I’m wondering as to how you would view Ben Witherington III’s interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 5:1-11 as describing the essentially same event from different perspectives, which would obviously put any notions of a ‘Rapture’ out of the picture.

First I would thank you (belatedly) for the link. I read the section above about Daniel with great interest.

Quite frankly I’m struggling to follow what the author is saying in great detail regarding Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 5:1-11. I do understand it at a high level, that they are essentially the same thing but one from the perspective of the saved and the other from the perspective of the damned.

Either it is a very straight forward argument and I’m looking at a mountain under a microscope, or I am too tired right now. It does make sense.

I wish I could give you more.

-Tim-

 

[Lochias]

Maybe you should think about posting in an Evangelical forum where they believe in Tim Laehaye. We’re Catholic. Like you. Mostly.

True, but not all of us can put these kinds of debates and points into words as well others, like Tim, can.

I appreciate these posts, because it lets me answer other non-Catholics better when they have questions.

It would be interesting to see what some of the various Evangelical forums might make of these thoughts, though.

 

[TimothyH]

True, but not all of us can put these kinds of debates and points into words as well others, like Tim, can.

I appreciate these posts, because it lets me answer other non-Catholics better when they have questions.

It would be interesting to see what some of the various Evangelical forums might make of these thoughts, though.

My goal isn’t so much to convert people to Catholicism, but if I help one person stay in the Church, I will have truly been an instrument of God.

-Tim-

 

[tabycat]

Thanks Tim but I still have the one question. When Jesus returns, will He land on the ground and then judge us or will we all meet Him in the air and be judged somewhere outside of earth?

IMHO It will be in the air but close to the ground in the area of Jerusalam, Isreal. :angel1::knight1::heaven::harp:

 

[TimothyH]

IMHO It will be in the air but close to the ground in the area of Jerusalam, Isreal. :angel1::knight1::heaven::harp:

Judgement will have nothing to do with air or earth or water or creation.

Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. (Revelation 20:20:11-12)

Land and sky and seas will be passing away. A new creation will be taking place.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. (Revelation 21:1)

Jesus will return, and he will do so the way he left, but when he returns he will user in a new creation. Judgment can’t happen on the ground or in the sky because these things will go away and will “be no more.”

-Tim-