Apologetics Assistance

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RaphaelJ

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Basically, I go to a Catholic school. In my country, Catholic schools are the best educational institutions. Thus, even Non-Catholics go and are accepted. Normally, none of them are Anti-Catholic because they live in a predominantly Catholic country. However…

One time in the library, I took a book called, “Answering a Fundamentalist”. My classmate saw me and she said that the cover was satanic. What was on the cover? It was a picture of a crucifix along with a normal cross. She said that we were committing idolatry. She also said that our “worshipping of Mary” and our statues are caused by Satan. I attempted to argue but she closed the argument by dismissively stating, “You don’t understand. You’re a Catholic”. I quietly rebutted by saying, “Maybe it’s you who is deluded”…

I can accept that she has a different ecclesial community but what do I do about it? Do I ignore it or do I start evangelizing? And if so, any tips?
 
Waitaminute - you attend a Catholic school. And this fellow (non-Catholic) student took offense at a photo of a Crucifix on the cover of a book you got from the library.

What sort of Catholic school is this? When I was in Catholic school, there was a Crucifix above every door of every classroom. A little shop operated at lunchtime which sold basic school supplies, as well as inexpensive plastic Crucifixes and rosaries (each of which has a Crucifix). There were many other images of Jesus (not on the Cross) all over the place.

Is your Catholic school so completely devoid of artistic representations of Jesus that this student flipped out over the “demonic” cover of a library book? I would think (and hope) she would be flipped out all of the time, being completely immersed in such images.

At any rate, I suspect you might find a better rebuttal between the covers of that particular library book.
 
There are crucifixes everywhere in my school. My classmate probably didn’t say her beliefs precisely because it is filled with all those “idols”. However, my concern is the action to be done now. This opinion is very strong and is accusing the Church to be like a “Synagogue of Satan”. Do I defend or not?
 
RaphaelJ
You always explain and correct, giving the reasons why, and showing how the other has been confused or misled.
 
Hi,

I would take the time to educate her on mistaken beliefs about Catholicism. Explain to her we do not “worship” Mary and how the crucifix is not an idol. I have found that an effective way to initiate this is ask her to explain to you why she thinks Catholics violate “insert gripe here.” Then you can actually use that to not only engage her but actually inform her of what Catholicism actually teaches and how it is more true than what she believes she knows or at the very least much different from what her bias displays. (For a good start search this site for the appropriate tracts that will help you explain/defend your faith. You can even print them out and give them to her.)

I think it is important to educate her on what we actually believe. Even if she doesn’t agree with you at least in good conscience she would not be able to make the claim that you worhisp idols or Mary. This might also make her re-examine the rest of her view of Catholicism and possibly even open a door for her for the fullness of the truth that the Church holds — a long shot but hey who knows. But I wouldn’t just let this slide while she makes these wild accusations based on hearsay and frankly her own ignorance because that’s how these false and baseless accusations continue to be perpetuated. We need to take the time to at least make an attempt at explaining their mistakens beliefs about Catholicism to them.

These links might help you get started.

hhttp://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp
catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
 
Thank you guys… Now I just need the courage and the eloquence to have a peaceful talk. So please, pray for me…
 
Another thought is that perhaps the principal of the school needs to know that this kind of nonsense is being spewed to Catholics attending this Catholic school.

This should not be permitted and should be confronted. This non-Catholic student is not to try to change the minds of Catholics going to this school.
 
Basically, I go to a Catholic school. In my country, Catholic schools are the best educational institutions. Thus, even Non-Catholics go and are accepted. Normally, none of them are Anti-Catholic because they live in a predominantly Catholic country. However…

One time in the library, I took a book called, “Answering a Fundamentalist”. My classmate saw me and she said that the cover was satanic. What was on the cover? It was a picture of a crucifix along with a normal cross. She said that we were committing idolatry. She also said that our “worshipping of Mary” and our statues are caused by Satan. I attempted to argue but she closed the argument by dismissively stating, “You don’t understand. You’re a Catholic”. I quietly rebutted by saying, “Maybe it’s you who is deluded”…

I can accept that she has a different ecclesial community but what do I do about it? Do I ignore it or do I start evangelizing? And if so, any tips?
It seems to me that you are overlooking the most obvious answer here…
What is the title of the book you picked up? Answering a Fundamentalist
What viewpoint is this girl espousing? It is a view often held by fundamentalists.

My suggestion would be to check out the book, read it and share with your friend the answers found there. 👍

Peace
James
 
Basically, I go to a Catholic school. In my country, Catholic schools are the best educational institutions. Thus, even Non-Catholics go and are accepted. Normally, none of them are Anti-Catholic because they live in a predominantly Catholic country. However…

One time in the library, I took a book called, “Answering a Fundamentalist”. My classmate saw me and she said that the cover was satanic. What was on the cover? It was a picture of a crucifix along with a normal cross. She said that we were committing idolatry. She also said that our “worshipping of Mary” and our statues are caused by Satan. I attempted to argue but she closed the argument by dismissively stating, “You don’t understand. You’re a Catholic”. I quietly rebutted by saying, “Maybe it’s you who is deluded”…

I can accept that she has a different ecclesial community but what do I do about it? Do I ignore it or do I start evangelizing? And if so, any tips?
Why don’t you just give hr the book to read? Edit: Sorry, I didn’t realize JRKH had just suggested the same thing.
 
Thank you guys… Now I just need the courage and the eloquence to have a peaceful talk. So please, pray for me…
The Catechism can be of great help here as well.

These people judge based on appearance. They do not take the time to look up what the Church teaches on these matters.
If she believes that Catholics worship Mary, Challenge her to show you the official Church teaching that says Mary is to be worshiped. There is none.
I wrote this rebuttal to the accusation a while back and you might find it useful.

Official Marion Teachings

All of the following comes from the DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH which is one of the source documents for the CCC. I believe it will offer a good summary and clarification of the Church’s doctrinal teachings on Mary.

In Paragraph 54 of this Dogmatic Documentafter Christ and yet very close to us.

Paragraph 53 contains the following statement about the Honor accorded to Mary.
“Wherefore she is hailed as a per-eminent and singular member of the Church, and as its type and excellent exemplar in faith and charity. The Catholic Church, taught by the Holy Spirit, honors her with filial affection and piety as a most beloved mother.”

Paragraph 56 contains this interesting statement, “Thus Mary, a daughter of Adam, consenting to the divine Word, became the mother of Jesus, the one and only Mediator.

Para 60, even more clearly and forcefully says, “There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”. The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.

Para 62 contains a passage, used in the CCC. “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This statement is, however followed in the dogmatic constitution by this:
“This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.”
Furthermore, in the CCC the very next para, 970 includes much of what is contained in the Dogmatic Constitution Para 60 shown above and is clear that Mary’s mediation, or intercession, is not separate from Christ.

Paragraph 62 goes on to say, “For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows this through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer.
Finally I’d like to address the fact, and it is a fact, that some people within the Church tend to overdo Marion devotion. Para 67 says, “But it exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God."
Thus when anyone sees or hears such statements from a member of the Church, even a Priest or Bishop, it can be understood that such statements are outside of the boundaries of Church teaching.

Frankly I could go on quoting from this Official Document of The church and a source document for the catechism, but it would be far better for anyone wishing to understand the Real teachings of The church to go the Linked document on the Vatican Website and to read it for themselves.

Suffice it to say, none who do will find anything in it that declares Mary equal to Christ, or that She is to be worshiped.

Peace
James
 
It seems to me that you are overlooking the most obvious answer here…
What is the title of the book you picked up? Answering a Fundamentalist
What viewpoint is this girl espousing? It is a view often held by fundamentalists.
My suggestion would be to check out the book, read it and share with your friend the answers found there.
I must admit that was the first thing I did, but the book seems to be still lacking some arguments. No matter, this site is chock full of them. 😃

[QUOTEThe Catechism can be of great help here as well.

These people judge based on appearance. They do not take the time to look up what the Church teaches on these matters.
If she believes that Catholics worship Mary, Challenge her to show you the official Church teaching that says Mary is to be worshiped. There is none.
I wrote this rebuttal to the accusation a while back and you might find it useful.]

Yeah, you’re right. I’m not perfectly sure about Church teachings sometimes. I once had a dialogue with a Baptist volunteer in our school about faith and good works. No shoutings. Just dialogue. But I found myself unsure of what the Church taught. sigh I tried reading it once but my head hurt so I told myself it’s for those over 20. But still, I think that it’s a good tip whenever you engage in debate.

Thank you all. I feel even better-equipped. Now, I just need to make a move. 😉
 
One time in the library, I took a book called, “Answering a Fundamentalist”. My classmate saw me and she said that the cover was satanic. What was on the cover? It was a picture of a crucifix along with a normal cross.
Just to the satisfy the curiosity some may have when reading this thread, here is the cover that your classmate deemed “satanic”:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I am not familiar with this particular book, but I did notice that it was published by Our Sunday Visitor and I usually find their publications to be good.
I can accept that she has a different ecclesial community but what do I do about it? Do I ignore it or do I start evangelizing? And if so, any tips?
As the others have recommended, learn the Catholic apologetic response to the idolatry charge and invite your friend to discuss it in a charitable way. The links DJK100 and Church Militant gave you should be sufficient for you to prepare for such a conversation, (and probably the book you were looking at as well). Tell her that you appreciate the concern she has that Catholics might be committing idolatry (i.e., presume that her heart was in the right place even if it was not), and that you want to ease her mind that what Catholics are doing (with crucifixes and such) is not a violation of God’s law.

Let these words from 1Peter 3:15-16 be your guide and inspiration:

“Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.” (RSV)
 
I must admit that was the first thing I did, but the book seems to be still lacking some arguments. No matter, this site is chock full of them. 😃
👍
Yeah, you’re right. I’m not perfectly sure about Church teachings sometimes. I once had a dialogue with a Baptist volunteer in our school about faith and good works. No shoutings. Just dialogue. But I found myself unsure of what the Church taught. sigh I tried reading it once but my head hurt so I told myself it’s for those over 20. But still, I think that it’s a good tip whenever you engage in debate.
Thank you all. I feel even better-equipped. Now, I just need to make a move. 😉
The subject of works can be a ticklish one but what I have discovered is that there is often a very fundamental difference in how a Catholic understands the term works and how a Protestant understands the same term. This can result in two people talking completely past one another.

With works and faith, the thing to remember is that, for the Christian, it is not an “either/or” but rather a both/and.
Faith is first and foundational. But what is faith and how does one know if the “faith” they have is a saving faith? It is by the fruits produced, in other words by our works. St James tells us that Faith without works is dead. So Works are the evidence of a proper and living faith.
Jesus, at judgement, separates the the sheep from the goats based on their faith? No - they are separated by their works (I was hungry, I was thirsty…). so while it is obvious that faith is an essential, one cannot truly be said to have faith if one does not also have works.

Does that make sense?

Peace
James
 
Ya know, that Baptist was pretty smart too. His doctrine on faith and works was really Catholic in thinking. However, he refused to say that we were saved by “faith and works”. He still insisted that we were saved on “faith alone”. He insisted that a true faith being followed by good works is not the same as “faith and works”. In my opinion, the only real difference was the terminology used.

Protestants can go to great lengths to make sure their understanding looks as if it is different from the Catholic interpretation.
 
Ya know, that Baptist was pretty smart too. His doctrine on faith and works was really Catholic in thinking. However, he refused to say that we were saved by “faith and works”. He still insisted that we were saved on “faith alone”. He insisted that a true faith being followed by good works is not the same as “faith and works”. In my opinion, the only real difference was the terminology used.

Protestants can go to great lengths to make sure their understanding looks as if it is different from the Catholic interpretation.
Yes - it is true that many protestants are very careful not to sound “too catholic”.

I think that the reason that your Baptist friend refuses to say “faith and Works” is because he continues to 1) feel this need to separate the two (based on an erroneous definition of works) and 2) Since he sees works as an output of faith, he would see it as more correctly expressed as, “works through faith”, or, "works from faith.
but as you rightly point out, it is largely semantics.

Peace
James
 
Ya know, that Baptist was pretty smart too. His doctrine on faith and works was really Catholic in thinking. However, he refused to say that we were saved by “faith and works”. He still insisted that we were saved on “faith alone”. He insisted that a true faith being followed by good works is not the same as “faith and works”. In my opinion, the only real difference was the terminology used.

Protestants can go to great lengths to make sure their understanding looks as if it is different from the Catholic interpretation.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong because I am still learning about this as well. But I think the major difference is that Protestants believe that it is faith that brings about your salvation, and leads you to your good works whereas Catholics believe it is the Grace of God that brings about your salvation and leads you to your faith and works. Some Protestants seem to feel that they can bring about their own salvation through just faith alone while Catholics feel that it is only through God’s grace that we achieve our justification and thus santification. Essentially our faith and works stem from God’s Grace and both, faith and works, are entwined with that Grace and thus each other. It is not one that leads to the other, but God’s Grace leads you, by the necessity of them being caught up in God’s grace, to both. It seems the real dispute is the driving force behind justification, God’s Grace or Faith in God.

No offense to any Protestant if I misunderstand your postion. Like I said I am still learning about it.
 
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