Apologetics for 1 John 5:16

[katholikos12]

Why does it say not to pray for those in mortal sin?

“If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.” – RSV

Other translations (actually the majority of translations) of this say “a sin” as opposed to “sin”. Also most translations do not say mortal sin, but sin that leads to death. And this becomes problematic when speaking with Protestant who references “a sin that leads to death” as referring to the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which as an unpardonable sin.

The Hebrew of “sin unto death” and “sin not unto death” is chattaah lemithah and chattaah lo lemithah, respectively. The “sin unto death” phrase in Hebrew refers to the breaking of law that requires capital punishment while the other phrase refers to breaking of the law that does not require capital punishment. “uch distinctions did exist in the Jewish synagogue both Schoettgen and Carpzovius have proved.” (bible.cc/1_john/5-16.htm, Clarke’s Commentary of the Bible)

To me this obviously represents a differentiation of sins being worse than others (and therefore supporting the RCC teaching of mortal and venial sins). Clearly, since this is written to Christians, St John cannot be referring to the Jewish Law, but Christs new law under the New Covenant.

But if this is the case/truth then why on earth would it say not to pray for those in mortal sin??

 

[bogeydogg]

I have always thought that this was referring to the “unforgivable sin”, and that John is referring to praying with a brother in sin for his reconciliation.

In other words the person who has committed sin over which he will not repent, in other words unbelief. Christ gives us two commands concerning the Law, one is to obey (hear/keep) the Law and the other is to repent of our breaking the Law. The first is to believe that Christ has so quickened us that we may now do what the unbeliever cannot do, keep the Law unto our salvation. The other is to so trust in Christ’s mercy that even when we sin, even serious sin, to believe that we may be forgiven and come back to the fount of mercy to receive reconciliation at His hand.

However a person who refuses to repent either rejects that he must keep the Law with no need to repent and so is an unbeliever on the first count, or believes that his sin is of such a nature that Christ cannot forgive it and so he is an unbeliever on the second point. In this that person is no longer a part of the Body of Christ and is separated from us. Jesus commands us to treat that one as a gentile and Paul commands us to hand such a one over to Satan. They are not part of us so how will we join with them in prayer?

Of course we pray for the whole world before the Altar. We pray for our unbelieving friends and petition God to be merciful to them, but we do not enjoin our prayers with the prayers of the non-believer and so drag Christ’s dignity through the mud.

Pray for the one who will not repent, but do not commune with them in faith as though they were joined to you in Christ. What they need is repentance and reconciliation not the gentle remanding of a friend, and for such a need Christ created the Priestly Office and gave to it the right to loose and bind sin. Therefore it is not our responsibility to do this. A friend in grievous sin needs a priest not a buddy.

God Bless

 

[katholikos12]

So then would it be disingenuous to refer to this passage as support for the CC teaching of mortal and venial sins? (I know there are other passages, but asking about this one in particular)

 

[bogeydogg]

So then would it be disingenuous to refer to this passage as support for the CC teaching of mortal and venial sins? (I know there are other passages, but asking about this one in particular)

No I don’t think so. I mean obviously if there is one sin for which there is no forgiveness then clearly there is a gradation of sins.

God Bless

 

[Glacies]

Possible interpretations are that meant is literally a sin which slays the sinner in the process, or a mortal sin which should rather be confessed to a priest in the Sacrament of Penance than only prayed for remittance. Haydock Commentary considers that “sin unto death” may refer to such grave sins which people are so unlikely to repent that a similar confidence as with praying for “who sinneth not to death” is not to be achieved.

A sin which is not unto death . . . . and life shall be given to him. It is hard to determine what S. John here calls a sin which is not unto death, and a sin which is unto death. The difference cannot be the same as betwixt sins that are called venial and mortal; for he says, that if a man pray for his brother who commits a sin that is not unto death, life shall be given to him: therefore such a one had before lost the life of grace, and been guilty of what is commonly called a mortal sin. And when he speaks of a sin that is unto death, and adds these words,* I do not say that any one should ask for* that sin, it cannot be supposed that S. John would say this of every mortal sin, but only of some heinous sins which are very seldom remitted, because such sinners very seldom repent. By a sin therefore which is not unto death, interpreters commonly understand a wilful apostacy from the faith, and from the known truth, when a sinner hardened by his own ingratitude becomes deaf to all admonitions, will do nothing for himself, but runs on to final impenitence. Nor yet does S. John say that such a sin is never remitted, or cannot be remitted, but only has these words, I do not say that any one should ask for the remission of that sin; that is, though we must pray for all sinners whatsoever, yet man cannot pray for such sinners with such a confidence of obtaining always their petitions, as S. John said before, v. 14. Whatever exposition we follow on this verse, our faith teaches us from the holy Scriptures, that God desires not the death of any sinner, but that he be converted and live. See Ezech. xxxiii. 11. Though men’s “sins be as the scarlet, they shall be made as white as snow.” Isaias i. 18. It is the will of God that every one come to the knowledge of truth and be saved. See John vi. 40. There is no sin so great but which God is willing to forgive, and has left power in his Church to remit the most enormous sins; so that no sinner need despair of pardon, nor will any sinner perish but by his own fault. Wi. — A sin unto death. Some understand this of final impenitence, or of dying in mortal sin, which is the only sin that never can be remitted; but, it is probable, he may also comprise under this name the sin of apostacy from the faith, and some other such henious sins as are seldom and hardly remitted: and therefore he gives little encouragement to such as pray for these sinners, to expect what they ask. Ch.

 

[MarcoPolo]

So then would it be disingenuous to refer to this passage as support for the CC teaching of mortal and venial sins? (I know there are other passages, but asking about this one in particular)

Not at all. In fact, the Catechism uses that verse to defend mortal sins. See CCC#1854, footnote 129.

If I’m not mistaken, there is a tradition that the verse says not to pray about more mortal sins, meaning that penance and confession are necessary, not just a personal prayer for forgiveness.

 

[katholikos12]

Not at all. In fact, the Catechism uses that verse to defend mortal sins. See CCC#1854, footnote 129.

If I’m not mistaken, there is a tradition that the verse says not to pray about more mortal sins, meaning that penance and confession are necessary, not just a personal prayer for forgiveness.

Beautiful! thats what i needed.

 

[Gorgias]

Why does it say not to pray for those in mortal sin?

“If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.” – RSV

But if this is the case/truth then why on earth would it say not to pray for those in mortal sin??

Huh? He’s not saying “don’t pray”! If so, then the passage would read “I say that one is not to pray”! But, that’s not what he’s saying – rather, what he writes is “I do not say that one is to pray for that” (and ‘that’ means “(for) God (to) give him life”). In other words, all he’s asserting is, “I’m not saying that one can pray a person out of mortal sin”…!