Apologetics Help (Saints)

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mawst

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I’ve posted a lot of scripture to someone (on another forum) and they keep saying that the baptized in Christ are baptized into his death, to support the claim that the “dead” are “dead to me but not christ”.

I really need help on how to answer this angle.
 
I’m not sure how to answer that. What did they mean, exactly?

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
mawst said:
I really need help on how to answer this angle.
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Your friend is quoting Romans 6:3:
Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
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Your response is to simply quote the next verse:
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
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The whole “buried in death” thing is a means to an end - which is eternal life (“alive to me, AND alive to Christ”). We don’t stay “buried in death” forever.
 
DavidFilmer said:
The whole “buried in death” thing is a means to an end - which is eternal life (“alive to me, AND alive to Christ”). We don’t stay “buried in death” forever.
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…huh… are you sure it’s not absolute Death? “an end” usually means: over, done with, dead… how do we know it’s not the state of being unborn? :confused:

Eternally Yours. ❤️
 
This is what he’s saying.

“Dude, you aren’t PHYSICALLY DEAD yet…the dead in Christ are physically DEAD.”
 
Just a final thank you here; this really gave me the angle I needed to put this guy’s man made religion to the test. He has no scripture, and no sacred tradition to support his claims and I pushed his point into the corner (thanks to the help).

This has strengthened my faith immensely. Thank you all and God bless.
 
mawst said:
Just a final thank you here; this really gave me the angle I needed to put this guy’s man made religion to the test. He has no scripture, and no sacred tradition to support his claims and I pushed his point into the corner (thanks to the help).
This has strengthened my faith immensely. Thank you all and God bless.
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Another point is that it is impossible to be dead to others and be dead to Christ. We are his Body. If one is dead he is dead to the whole Body of Christ, not just Christ. This is what St. Paul would say.

I would say your friend is not understanding the Body of Christ Concept.

mdcpensive1
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mdcpensive1 said:
Another point is that it is impossible to be dead to others and be dead to Christ. We are his Body. If one is dead he is dead to the whole Body of Christ, not just Christ. This is what St. Paul would say.

I would say your friend is not understanding the Body of Christ Concept.

mdcpensive1
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Indeed, another point I hadn’t considered.
 
Yes, those who deny our communion with the saints in heaven fracture the Body of Christ. It is highly unbiblical that we can ask others to pray for us on earth, but suddenly when they are closest to God, actually fully united with Him, we can’t ask them? I’ll post a couple posts I made in another thread that is related to this that might help…
 
See, this is where the false dichotomy comes in. It is not Mary versus Jesus. It is not the Corinthians versus God. When the crowds were stumbling over each other hoping Peter’s shadow would pass over them, were they afire for Peter? Or Jesus? When Saul was persecuting the Christians, did Jesus appear to him and say, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute them?” Of course not. And you know how the passage really goes.

Paul most certainly encourages the members of the Body of Christ to pray for each other. We are told to bear one anothers burdens. We are told to encourage each other, build each other up. We are told to love one another.

The difference between Catholic and Protestant theology on this is as follows: Catholics do not believe those in heaven suddenly are relieved of their duties to love and pray “day and night” and pray for other members of the Body of Christ just because they are in heaven. All the more are those closely united to God loving of the Body! Protestant theology, often unknowingly, effectively separates the Body of Christ by saying the concept of intercession desists once a person reaches heaven. Catholic theology maintains the oneness of Christ’s body, whereas Protestant theology renders it divided.
 
But did not Christ ask that we articulate our prayers? Even though he knew what the blind man wanted, did he not still say, “What do you want me to do for you?” And why should we not apply this when asking for intercession just because there is not an explicit reference to do so? Can we not put 2 and 2 together like the early Church did defining the Trinity? These are all concepts in Scripture. Did not the Jews seek intercession from the heavenly angel in Zechariah 1:11-16? Does not the Psalmist exhort the angels to pray along with him? Why should those now with the angels be off-limits? They are part of the same Body! What evidence do we have of the Apostles denying such concepts in revelation from God? Did not Peter himself speak to Tabitha after her death?
 
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