Apologetics...tiresome work

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What about giving her a book of conversion stories? Surprised by *Truth *(3 volumes), edited by Patrick Madrid, Crossing the Tiber by Stephen Ray, Rome Sweet Home by Scott and Kimberly Hahn, and Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie are all excellent.

God bless!

Cindy
 
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BobCatholic:
Yes, it is tiresome work.

Remember, your job as an apologist is to plant seeds. You will NEVER convert anyone - that’s the job of the Holy Spirit.

What was that Bible verse? One sows, another reaps?

Let God do the reaping. You won’t be disappointed.
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Bob, I just want to say a big THANK YOU !

I was thinking along the lines too that I had to convert people, and was having a hard time with a circle of friends, as they bring up all kinds of things about the Catholic Church, and about sins , and free will, and the list goes on. They make me so tired, and I feel like throwing my arms up and saying “ok find out the truth when you are in hell”. I am even wondering if I should remain friends with them, I am finding it more difficult to talk with them seen as I have reverted a big way back to my Faith.

Now what you said makes sense.

I plant the seeds, and hope the Holy Spirit does the reaping.

Well, I know I have planted the seeds to a lot of people since I have started studying Apologetics through this site, forum, and Karl’s books.

Thank you for making me realize I don’t have to reap.

Phew 🙂

Love Kellie
 
When I was a Protestant studying these things one of the first things that caught my attention was that not everything we needed to know was in the Bible. The Story of Jannes and Jambrers mentionioned in II Timothy.The account of the Archangel Michael is not found in the OT or the Prophecy of Enoch mentioned in Jude. "It is more blessed to Give than to receive’ spoken by our Lord but not recorded in the Gospels. Its in the book of Acts.

One thing that started me thinking was the Church councils. I trusted that the Holy Spirit worked through them for the cannon of the Bible. I trusted that the doctrine of the Trinity was developed by the working of the Holy Spirit again. If I could trust them for the Bible iteself…why wasn’t I trusting that same Holy Spirit to work through them when it came to other matters, like the sinlessness of Mary for instance. Where could I draw the line and why should I be drawing any line. What right did I or anyone have to say “Ok…the Holy Spirit worked through the Church up to this point but no further.” Why should I believe what some man said about it? And one thing led to another…

And that is the road taken by this former Fundamentalist. 🙂

dream wanderer
 
Most of the time I just bang my head against the wall with these folks. Their powers of obfuscation and reductionism are astoudningly powerful. Every now and then, though, I’m blown away by a moment of understanding, or something unexpected.

The other day I was out with a fundamentalist friend from work. She asked me about Masses for the dead, and I gave her a short answer and tried to deflect the argument about “Purgatory” not being in the Bible that I expected to be coming. Then she floored me–she said, “Oh, I understand that sometimes we need extra-Biblical texts to understand what the early Christians believed…”

Huh? I thought I’d stepped into a more rational dimension.

On the other hand, my non-Catholic, non-anything girlfriend seems to be flirting with ideas of polytheism, and I never know what to say. A recent conversation went something like this:

Girlfriend: “How do you know you worship the right God?”

Me: “Well, there’s only one God. There can’t possibly be more than one.”

Girlfriend: “How do you know there isn’t a God above your God?”

Me: “No, no, you misunderstand. I’m talking about the absolute and infinite creator.”

Girlfriend: "But what if there’s one ABOVE that God?

Me: “Let’s just go get a drink.” (Thinking to myself: Methinks you need to refamiliarize yourself with the words “infinite” and “absolute.”
 
I can certainly identify with this thread. I have some evangelical friends that have either asked me questions or made remarks that required me to make a response. Usually they seem to understand and sometimes have no rebuttal. At that point one would presume that the case was closed on the issue. Oddly enough the subject would resurface months later as if they had never heard the catholic response in the first place, and we would start all over again with the same result.

I even have a fundamentalist friend that refuses to read scripture passages that I have assembled as proof texts regardless of the question or topic. As a catholic using scripture I am viewed as a satanic tool coming to him as an angel of light. I am not making this up…this individual actually told me that very thing. A mutual (evangelical) friend of ours was speaking with him and later came to me to see if I knew of any scripture verses that supported a point he was making with our fundamentalist friend. I went ahead and printed out a number of verses which he proceeded to show the fundamentalist who then asked him if I had supplied them. When told that I was the source, he refused to even read them.

I have always dealt with this person in charity and we get along well. The problem is that we all have egos and we hold our beliefs dearly. Sometimes things are rejected simply because they are from a catholic source and the predjudice is overwhelming reason. I find it frustrating but most of the time I just remember what was said in an earlier post. We merely plant the seeds and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

I do find that if I take a breath and say a brief prayer before ever giving an answer, things seem to go more smoothly. I try to follow the conversation up with a closing prayer of thanksgiving, and then reflection on how the conversation went. Sometimes analyzing the exchange and reflecting upon what was said helps me see the things I’ve missed. The next time a conversation arises I will attempt to fill in the blanks from the first exchange.

We can only do what we can do, and we must leave the rest to God.
 
We are all called to be apologists. It is my opinion that there are many people who want to be Catholic and just don’t know it, we need to tell them.

Sadly there is a popular view that ecumenism means putting the Catholic Church on par with Protestant denominations. I was made painfully aware of this fact in a conversation with a lovely Catholic lady not long ago. While discussing several ecumenical actives she was involved in she made the statement that the Catholic Church was, “just another denomination,” and that it really didn’t matter what church one belonged to. She meant no disrespect for the Catholic Church, which she unquestionably loved. But, she had been lulled into this modern “ecumenism” that blurs the line between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians. In our tolerant ecumenical mood today it has become very unpopular to believe that there is one true Church and that the Catholic Church is it, even though we say we believe that she is the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church” at every Mass.
Because of this I have found many Catholics in my area see no value in Catholic apologetics. Our apologetics must extend not only to Protestants, but to our Catholic brothers and sisters also.

PAX CHRISTI

Bill
 
Bill Rutland:
Because of this I have found many Catholics in my area see no value in Catholic apologetics. Our apologetics must extend not only to Protestants, but to our Catholic brothers and sisters also.

PAX CHRISTI

Bill
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I share your experience in this regard, and it is daunting to realize just how much work needs to be done within the church itself.
 
I also have this experience. My Catholic friends don’t share the same exitement I have towards apologetics. And I see apologetics as an important aspect of ecumenism. I see as both of them going hand in hand.
Sometimes I have to even bite my lips when I want to say something about the truth of the Catholic faith to “ecumenical” Catholic friends. One good friend of mine whom I thought shared my vieuw of the faith said once to me as I was talking about the interest in the faith I sence a mutual Evangelical friend has. He told me he takes the ‘ecumenical’ aproach. That he prefers to be ‘ecumenical’. And I thought: (hmm? what does he mean with that? Is he oposing my apologetic/ecumenical approach? Is he seeing this as proselitysing?)
Well, I’m sad to say that our friendship is not growing. I find it hard to find a Catholic friend with an apologetic approach to practising the Faith. So the friends I have that agree with me I find on this forum and other apologetic programmes and books.

I seem to be the only one that is this exited about the Catholic faith and to spreading it, of being apologetic aside from being ecumenical.
I don’t know how to deal with this. It seems that sometimes I have to be carefull what I say to some Catholic friends. I don’t want to force them to see apologetics in a different way. But I know that I don’t have to be carefull what to say to my Protestant friends. It’s kind of funny that with some Catholic friends I have to be carefull what to say(I think they think I want to proseletize my Protestant friends), and with my Protestant friends I don’t have to be carefull at all if I want to say something about the Catholic faith.
(I live in the Netherlands where they are very ‘ecumenical’. There are not many Catholics that are being apologetic.)

And the Vatican issued a statement some time ago about true ecumenism, that we have to be carefull about false ecumenism of wanting to water down our faith. That ecumenism goes hand in hand with diologue about the differences the Christian groups have. We talk of what we have in common and also about what we don’t have in common.

Shalom!
 
So I continue to pray for my Protestant as well as for my Catholic friends!
 
weunice said:
I personally think there should be apologetics classes at every Catholic Church. Not small groups. Laity teaching the in’s and outs of defending the faith on a regular basis to rooms full of people. There are mobs of Catholics out there who would love to be able to defend their faith if people were brave enough to clue them in on how to do it.
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we have offered Beginning Apologetics every year for the last 4 years, a total of 12 people have completed the course, given by exellent college-level teachers.
 
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