Apologists at Local Level -aftermath- Glad I didn't get lynched tonight

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Be sure to include in your letter that thankfully only about 10 women showed up.
Glad you went, if they had those kind of talks in our Diocese I would want to go to dispel them just as you did! Thanks for doing that, that was great of you, and thank God you stayed even-tempered, I don’t always do that myself, I’m working on it though.
 
Ryan L.-- thank you. We buried her today. They have lived in Hawaii for several years so had a funeral at her parish and then we had one here today. She is buried in our family plot. 😦 She was a beautiful woman and my uncle guided me to her casket today and said to me, “Here’s my bride…isn’t she beautiful?”

The world will mourn her presence.

Anyway, we need to further generate publicity for this…don’t let this thread go, please!
 
Hello !

I’ve got a question for you to give the crowd at the next meeting.

I recently had the discussion of women in the priesthood with a female friend - she’s VERY educated in the faith, which makes me nervous about even having the discussion with her.

My only driver was that … I KNOW that the Church has the answer … if she stumps me, I just have to go find it.

Here’s the question:

“Choosing only one, would you rather be a priest or a saint?”

The answer will reveal their true goals.

Cheers and bon chance!

michel
 
These ladies were in their late forties to perhaps sixtees. They were radical!
There’s your answer right there.
Being in this age group myself (baby boomer) I know where their entitlement ideas come from. Think 1967 plus.
The sooner this particular generation passes, the better for The Church. I’m sure that sounds harsh but I believe it. All the dissedents I’ve ever spoken to within The Church are in this age group and most are women, and many are Religious.
When I first came into The Church, their attitudes and opinions actually scared me because I so wanted The Church to be as I understood it to be. I’m past all that now and just tell them the way it always has been, the way it is supposed to be and the way it will be after them.When they don’t like it, too bad.
I am fortunate to know young ladies in their 20’s who are some of the most orthodox Catholics I’ve ever met, except for the pre-Vatican II people. They don’t seem to be swayed in the least by these women’s heterodox opinions.
I don’t think they should even be given a venue for this stuff.
 
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cazayoux:
Here’s the question:

“Choosing only one, would you rather be a priest or a saint?”

The answer will reveal their true goals.

Cheers and bon chance!

michel
GREAT POINT!

When it comes down to it, nothing further needs to be said.
 
I HAVE A MAJOR UPDATE!!!

Archbishop Flynn was at my parish this evening for the installation Mass of our pastor.

I took the opportunity and waited until the tail end of the line so that I could bend his ear.

I actually ASKED him if I could bend his ear, first! 😃

First I thanked him for our priests at our parish so as to set the stage so he knew that I was not about to go off on a weird tangent and criticize him.

I told him that the CCW and the “research” from the “Listening Sessions” was going to be presented to him and it was not going to accurately portray how faithful Catholic women feel.

He acknowledged this and told me, “You know, I DID NOT approve this thing. I found out about it after I read it somewhere and I was QUITE ANNOYED.”

He said that sometimes that happens in a large organization and that it is not happening by his approval.

I also told him that I was speaking for faithful Catholic women everywhere in that we see the Church as a sanctuary where we do not have to be anything other than women of God, and this is what we want to keep safe. We also want him to understand when he is presented with this slanted research that they are NOT speaking for we, the faithful.

I also told him that we are praying for him. (Don’t make me a liar now!).

So, everyone, go and spread the word…the sessions are not approved by Archbishop Flynn nor would he have given it the time of day. He does approve our going to try to stand up for what we know to be the truth.
 
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JCPhoenix:
I HAVE A MAJOR UPDATE!!!

Archbishop Flynn was at my parish this evening for the installation Mass of our pastor.

I took the opportunity and waited until the tail end of the line so that I could bend his ear.

I actually ASKED him if I could bend his ear, first! 😃

First I thanked him for our priests at our parish so as to set the stage so he knew that I was not about to go off on a weird tangent and criticize him.

I told him that the CCW and the “research” from the “Listening Sessions” was going to be presented to him and it was not going to accurately portray how faithful Catholic women feel.

He acknowledged this and told me, “You know, I DID NOT approve this thing. I found out about it after I read it somewhere and I was QUITE ANNOYED.”

He said that sometimes that happens in a large organization and that it is not happening by his approval.

I also told him that I was speaking for faithful Catholic women everywhere in that we see the Church as a sanctuary where we do not have to be anything other than women of God, and this is what we want to keep safe. We also want him to understand when he is presented with this slanted research that they are NOT speaking for we, the faithful.

I also told him that we are praying for him. (Don’t make me a liar now!).

So, everyone, go and spread the word…the sessions are not approved by Archbishop Flynn nor would he have given it the time of day. He does approve our going to try to stand up for what we know to be the truth.
I will certainly include him in prayer. All our bishops need more prayer. I can only hope his answers to you were sincere. I say that because our bishop has often said “I did not know”, or “I would not have allowed that” or “those actions are not permitted” etc… yet they continue and he does not correct many things that are within his power to correct immediately.

You might consider a followup letter or phone call to express your support, and ask for his. Have the letter signed by some of the women you said you speak for… or have them write to the bishop too. In other words, make the seed you planted grow.
 
As a woman co-chairing a ministry at our church, I receive a survey every year about women’s issues in the diocese. I didn’t know what happened to the survey results but I see by your posting that they may have been leading up to something more radical. If they have a meeting like that here I hope to be able to attend.
I have attended missions where the visiting priests to my amazement have been preaching for change in the church on issues such as contraception, married priests, women priests and the more outspoken members of the audience were the women. I was told by a nurse that birth control pills are not an abortifacient.
I have also attended classes in order to get my catechist certificate, that have a priest in our diocese promoting these changes as well. Those of us who speak up are made to look foolish and old-fashioned.

But I will continue to speak out.
 
joey(name removed by moderator):
u

But I will continue to speak out.
Good for you… joey will be proud of you, and God will shower you both with His graces.
 
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MrS:
I will certainly include him in prayer. All our bishops need more prayer. I can only hope his answers to you were sincere. I say that because our bishop has often said “I did not know”, or “I would not have allowed that” or “those actions are not permitted” etc… yet they continue and he does not correct many things that are within his power to correct immediately.

You might consider a followup letter or phone call to express your support, and ask for his. Have the letter signed by some of the women you said you speak for… or have them write to the bishop too. In other words, make the seed you planted grow.
I really do believe he was sincere, and this for 2 reasons:
  • first, because during our conversation in which I told him what faithful Catholic women are really about, he agreed several times and assured me he was very aware of these facts.
I thanked him and went to move on so that he could greet the people who had just joined the line behind me. He did not let go of my hand, but rather made it a point to tell me without breaking eye contact that he was upset by what was happening. I am very accustomed to speaking to people who lie or who are not sincere, and in “reading” Archbishop Flynn in this context, I can tell you with relative confidance that he is truly sincere about this.
  • secondly, one of our new priests, who is from a very orthodox parish and is of course very orthodox himself, has gotten to know the Archbishop through his seminary years, and he told me also that he understands how Flynn is working behind the scenes and he trusts him very much and where he is leading us. If this particular priest has trust in our Archbishop, then he is likely worthy of trust—but prayers still needed!
About the letters…still planning that! I am getting our local Frassati societies involved and asking those to spread the word to other faithful Catholics and if people can’t go, then to send letters of support to the Archbishop so that he can see hard evidence as to where our heart really lies.
 
I found an update for us all.

I was never able to make it to any of the sessions. Did anyone else? Here is the pagan “Catholic” church’s take on the session they hosted.

stjoan.com/highlightsfr.htm

Honestly, these people are not Catholic in their beliefs. They have never been taught Catholic theology.

I say we sweep into this church, remove all the staff from power and bolt the doors. In the meantime we install orthodox priests, secretaries, deacons, and recruit orthodox parishioners to attend Mass and go out to the various apostolates and teach catechism classes.

I actually ranted on this in my blog in 4 parts. Since I still don’t know how to use HTML on blogspot, it looks really bad…but I did it anyway.

So! Can anyone else report? Have you found any other references to the “Listening Sessions” and what they allegedly “prove”?

From what I can tell, the results of this biased study presents the conclusion that the majority of the participants are not actually Catholic.

If they were honest they would actually admit that and stop using Church property to propogate New Age religion.
 
As a pre-Vatican II Catholic and a father of several baby boomers, I have never had a problem with the concept of women being ordained as priests or priestesses if you prefer. I have been very active over the years in teaching the Faith to both young people and adults and during that time have met several women who would have made wonderful compassionate pastors. On the other hand the handful of women I have met who wanted to be priests, were not at all suitable in my mind because they lacked a talent for pastoring and seemed to be more interested in equal power for women. In short they longed for power and authority over others. Not a good trait. I have never found most of the rationale for not having women priests very convincing and the only thing that seemed to make sense to me despite my innovative abilities in new things or objects was that we had never done this for 2000 years and Tradition therefore says that not even the Pope has the authority to make the change. Jesus had many women disciples who followed him around and served him. He obviously was a close friend with some of them, but not a single one was called by him to be an apostle. I have never advovcated for women priests and in my teaching role for the Church have always taught what the Church teaches and not what I might think privately about a few things. The one thing that bugs me today is that there are so few Catholic men in teaching roles in our parish or in Bible studies or prayer groups. We do have a very strong and top performing K of C Council which does a lot of good things both in and outside the parish including supporting our priests and several seminarians, but it seems like teaching or studying the Faith are “girl things.” From what I have seen and heard about Bishop Flynn from this side of the river, he is a good and faithful shepherd. Bottom line is I still could not advocate that women be ordained nor have I ever met one that I thought was “called.”
 
You really hit the nail on the head.

The women seeking ordination are looking for “power” and “authority”. They are not seeking to serve, they are not seeking to submit to authority.

I actually never met a good priest who was all about power. Rather, the best priests I’ve had the fortune to meet are humble and one can just SEE Jesus in them. It’s awesome.

I also agree that very few men are teaching, and that is so sad. I have no problem with women who are teaching, as long as what they teach is consistent and in line with the Church. Yet our youth and people entering the Church need to see men in those roles as well.

They actually commented on male/female roles in the church on Relevant Radio, and talked about how many women vs men actually ATTEND church…and how many of those men who do attend are really faithful…or are they there to please their wives? To fulfull their obligation, but their hearts are not really in it?

Very sad.

I say that we need to do a better job in recruiting men for these teaching and leadership roles!
 
thecatholicspirit.com/archives.php?article=4612

They are already puffing their proverbial feathers.

Whether they are committed to church tradition or dream that women someday will be priests, people who attended a listening session on women’s issues last week had something in common: They want women to play a more vital role in the life of the church.

Not enough women are in influential roles in the church, they said. Not enough make policies or handle finances. Although women proliferate in supporting roles, they are not heard as leaders.

“Many people don’t know Catholic leadership that is not a priest,” one woman said. “We don’t know how to acknowledge anyone but the priesthood.”

The desire for more attention to women’s voices has been a recurring theme in the nearly 20 listening sessions that have been held around the archdiocese this fall, said Mary Crossen, a member of the Archdiocesan Commission on Women, the group that organized the sessions.

“Everyone wants women more involved,” said Crossen, who helped facilitate several sessions, including the Nov. 3 one at St. John in Little Canada.

The commission plans to compile the results of the listening sessions and give a summary to Archbishop Harry Flynn and other archdiocesan leaders at the beginning of 2006.

The report will not include a request for any action, said Joe Claus, another commission member and facilitator.

“So even though we heard people tonight, and the results will be published,” he said, “there’s no guarantee that there will be some follow-up, or that there will be some acknowledgement that there’s pain.”

Group sizes have ranged from a low of four to a high of two dozen. (The largest meeting took place at the College of St. Catherine.) Most participants have been middle-aged or older, but the St. Catherine listening session drew students, and there have been a few moms with young children, Crossen said.

At the Nov. 3 listening session, six women and three men joined facilitators Crossen and Claus in the church social hall. They sat at round tables, cupping mugs of coffee and tea in their hands, and let loose with their passions and concerns about issues facing the church.

Because the listening sessions guarantee confidentiality, the participants were not identified for this article.

Several women said they had asked friends to join them at the listening session but were met with skepticism, cynicism and resignation. “We’re getting too old for this,” one woman reported hearing. “People say they’re not going to be listened to.” “Why should I go?”

A discussion of concerns affecting women generated comments about a lack of leadership roles and not enough attention given to the plight of disenfranchised women, such as the poor and abused.

“Where would we be without the women?” someone noted. “Who staffs the offices? Who does the ministries? If we went on strike for one day . . .” she said, shaking her head.

Another woman talked about how inspiring it was to see women in pastoral and spiritual leadership roles in Protestant churches. Contrasted with that was the story of a local Catholic parish’s pastoral council, which is all male.

Even men suffer when women’s gifts are ignored, one man said.

“Men are being cheated by the way women are being treated,” he said. “All I hear is men preach. It’s a disenfranchisement for women . . . the whole feminine perspective. It undermines what women have.”

The discussion evolved into a laundry list of concerns participants have about the church at large. Issues ranged from not enough preaching about the evils of abortion to the fallout of the clergy abuse scandal, which is burdening some dioceses with dire financial problems.

Some do not agree with the church’s policy of a celibate priesthood. Others did not care for the masculine language used in liturgies. Still others mentioned a lack of dialogue about sexuality, racism and war.

In the final moments, the group at St. John dreamed of what roles they’d like to see women play.

“All roles — any roles that men have,” one woman said. She said she’d like to see the church function as “a circle with varying roles, rather than top-down.”

“Someday, I would like to see women priests because we are made in the likeness and image of God,” another woman said.

Added one of the men: “If I can dream, I would like to see our women administer all the sacraments as much as any of the men can.”

Others disagreed. “Women can have any role they want except that of priest,” a woman said.

“I’m against having women priests,” her husband added. “I think we should concentrate more on vocations” to resolve the priest shortage. “But if the pope said we could have married men, I could go along with that.”
 
I am going to make a very serious and honest request of all of you, especially local Catholics…but we could use the support also of local Christians of all denominations who support the Church in orthodoxy, and Catholics from other parts of the country and world.

Please send a letter to Archbishop Harry Flynn of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Archdiocese. First tell him of your prayers and support and acknowledge that he has a big job.

Then tell him what women and men REALLY want…we want the Truth, unabridged and not watered down. We are THIRSTY for good, solid catechesis. We are STRIVING to understand God’s true will for our lives and we faithfully attend Mass, adoration, Confession, etc. in order to help with that discernment.

We the faithful are here to SERVE not to make demands. We want to fill in where the Church organized by Jesus himself needs us.

We are here for prayer, for sacrifice, and should God choose to elevate us, we want that to be God’s decision, not our own broken claws and tempermental demands that get us there.

We seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not the authority of David. We pray for the Wisdom of Solomon, not the temptation in the desert.

There is so much to say for orthodoxy, and I think a lot of letters sent personally to the Archbishop and cc’d to The Catholic Spirit (www.thecatholicspirit.com) would make an actual impact.

Please tell every orthodox Catholic you know that this needs to be done. Please notify orthodox organizations, the pro-life lobby, etc. Get the word out.

Get Frassati Society chapters involved.

If it does no more than bolster the spirits of this Archbishop, then we have done a lot. Please consider this and please take this seriously.
 
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JCPhoenix:
We the faithful are here to SERVE not to make demands. We want to fill in where the Church organized by Jesus himself needs us.
I guess I’m missing something. What’s the plan again?
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JCPhoenix:
I say we sweep into this church, remove all the staff from power and bolt the doors. In the meantime we install orthodox priests, secretaries, deacons, and recruit orthodox parishioners to attend Mass and go out to the various apostolates and teach catechism classes.
 
Penny Plain:
I guess I’m missing something. What’s the plan again?
ok that was a little tongue-in-cheek and we have to trust that our Archbishop is lead by the Holy Spirit. That little blurb was really just my typical hot-headedness getting the better of me.

I still think it’s a good idea as they really aren’t Catholic although they call themselves so. They have even removed “Catholic” from their webpage, but otherwise put up a front that they belong to the Catholic religion. Sad, sad, sad. From most of us can see locally regarding SJA parish, they are in outright and prideful schism.

The plan at this point is really just to support the Archbishop, because he needs us. When he is confronted by this slanted report from the schismatic feminists who have the archdiocese in a stranglehold, he can then pull out a stack of letters…typewritten, hand written, printed, etc, of heartfult expressions of the faithful of the archdiocese he serves and:
  • use them to bolster his own spirits
  • use them as evidence against the alleged “proof” of what women want.
A letter written by many many individuals submitted to the Archbishop sure says a lot more than some smarmy “research” which is presented in the form of a biased report.

Is the letter writing campaign biased! Sure is! On the side of the Church we all have a duty to defend.
 
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