Apology for Moslem arguments (first question)

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Mvrk

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Hello,

I live in Indonesia, here Catholic in indonesia have two “conflicts” i think.

One with our “neighboor” Protestanism.
and one with Islam.

last time i have some discussion with my friend, it’s about Baptism in Christian with “Old testament” Mitzvah.

In Mitzvah, the washing must be done several times and in Christian only done once. And the arguments is, if only the christian only teach baptism only once so it’s against the Jewish tradition. And if Christian against Jewish tradition, the single baptism are against this verse:
Mat 5:17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
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Because Christian against that verse, they assume we against Christ’s words and they will run into “Fake bible” argument.

my question is, is Mitzvah one of the Jewish law that must be fulfilled? (just like baptism on Christian).

oh yes one more, how many law classification in Jewish religion? Torah and tradition or there still many more?

Thanks.
 
By Mitzvah, are you referring to the Jewish rite of Bar Mitzvah which Jewish males go thru around the age of 12-13?
If so, Baptism should not be compared to that. Baptism should be compared to the rite of Circumcision. Baptism is the rite of initiation into the New Covenant; Circumcision is the rite of initiation into the Old Covenant. As far as I know, there were no washings mandated by God as a part of Circumcision.
 
Nita said:
By Mitzvah, are you referring to the Jewish rite of Bar Mitzvah which Jewish males go thru around the age of 12-13?
Click to expand...
Yes it is, Jewish Bar Mitzvah. hmm…
If so, Baptism should not be compared to that. Baptism should be compared to the rite of Circumcision. Baptism is the rite of initiation into the New Covenant; Circumcision is the rite of initiation into the Old Covenant. As far as I know, there were no washings mandated by God as a part of Circumcision.
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Ah so Baptism compared with Circumcision…

because the key is the initiation, Baptism is the new initiation of New testament… yes yes, i think i get the point 😃

but wait, then why John the baptist baptize Jewish that time? (before christ preach about baptism) is there any jewish tradition related to this?
 
Mvrk said:
but wait, then why John the baptist baptize Jewish that time? (before christ preach about baptism) is there any jewish tradition related to this?
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John, a Jew, was preaching a baptism of repentance of sin. I don’t know if this was a common Jewish practice at the time.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
#720 Finally, with John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit begins the restoration to man of “the divine likeness,” **prefiguring **what He would achieve with and in Christ. John’s baptism was for repentance; baptism in water **and the Spirit **will be a new birth.
(Bolding and underlining done by me)

Do you have a Catechism? If not you can access it here. You might also like to read paragraphs #535-537
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
 
Nita said:
John, a Jew, was preaching a baptism of repentance of sin. I don’t know if this was a common Jewish practice at the time.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
#720 Finally, with John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit begins the restoration to man of “the divine likeness,” **prefiguring **what He would achieve with and in Christ. John’s baptism was for repentance; baptism in water **and the Spirit **will be a new birth.
(Bolding and underlining done by me)

Do you have a Catechism? If not you can access it here. You might also like to read paragraphs #535-537
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Click to expand...
hmm… im curious if John the baptist only preach, how could he get the “water” rituals such as dip it or sprinkle it?

or perhaps he just symbolised water as “washing sins” ? :D:D

but i get the point, baptism is a “new birth” and if we want to compare with Old Testament tradition we must compare it with “new birth” of Old Testament, the circumcision… i get it…

oh i have the catechism both in english and in my local language, but sometimes i rarely use it as reference… i will read again my catechism 🙂

thankyou! 👍
 
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