Apostacy by 570 A.D / For Casen and us

  • Thread starter Thread starter catholic-rcia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry for the spelling; it is late here…getting “fat fingered”.

Caritas numquam excidit.
 
The RCC long ago came to the conclusion that the personal worthiness of a preisthood bearer did not alter the efficacy of the exersize of their preistly office.
Click to expand...
However, once it becomes apparent that the priest is “not worthy” he can be prohibited from acting as a priest-- at least until such time as he rehabilitates himself.
 
The settling of America and the new freedom of religion in this world
Click to expand...
Are you aware that until the second half of the 20th century, Native Americans wre prohibited from practicing their traditional religions? The potlach of the northwest tribes was prohibited, the sundance of the plains tribes was prohibited, and the NativeAmerican Church was and still is an underground church? Despite all three being compatible with Christianity? So much for religious freedom. :mad:
 
However, once it becomes apparent that the priest is “not worthy” he can be prohibited from acting as a priest-- at least until such time as he rehabilitates himself.
Click to expand...
Of course. I was not addressing the administrative issues of a morally challenged preist, only the spiritual effectiveness of the rites administered.
 
40.png
Imconfused:
You LDS come to a Catholic forum. You post statements on the Catholic forum that are anti Catholic and put forth ridiculous arguments about it. Then you are upset because Catholics reject the teachings. Did the LDS such as Tom Nosser and CAsen and B.J. really expect to come to the Catholic Forum, the Catholic Church which possesses the fullness of truth, and have Catholics suddenly flocking to the LDS church? Perhaps you can give us something besides superstition, magic rituals, secret handshakes, skewed history, doublespeak theology typed in huge print, to go on here. What you have presented to us here is an outrageously racist religion that has cleaned itself up in the last 3 decades in order to be more PC. You have described a religion that is little more than the Freemasons gone grandiose. You’ve presented us with just one unspeakable heresy after another and are offended by our rejection of it. You have belittled
our God, put Him in a position of servant of man’s will, elevated
man over God, and given us a prophet who claims what Christ
really meant was for true brothers and sisters to murder the
sinner. You have presented tablets or something purporting to be from the Egyptian which known Egyptologists call pure nonsense. And then you give us a version of talking in tongues which in the Catholic Church is actually a sign of satanic possession and expect us to sanctify it by calling it a gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of tongues you are talking about is NOT TONGUES. It is entirely different. You have given us a known confidence man as a prophet equal in stature to the holy prophets such as Elijah. You have used the New Testament and Christ’s words to justify murder of enemies. You have uttered just about every blasphemy against the Holy Mother of God a person can do in their lifetime. Just what exactly were you hoping for when you came here? Our thanks for helping us not be “apostate”? Please, LDS, remove the forest of wood from your own eyes before you come to the forum to remove our splinters. Can you comprehend at all the mercy and grace of a God who is still listening to you here? The Holy Mother Church, after you have insulted her in hundreds of ways is still listening to you. And still, you are not satisfied. You demand more.
Click to expand...
This is a good example of what I was talking about. I think it was a Catholic who asked the LDS to explain what we believe about the Apostacy. Did we asked you to believe our explanation? No. We simply answered the question put forth by you. Some of us are doing a good job of exchanging ideas in a peaceful and respectful manner and here is the kind of post I was talking about, that is full of lies and anti-Mormon rhetoric. Why are you in a thread of Catholic-LDS exchange of ideas, if you want to spout hatred? Why can’t you tell the truth and not repeat all the lies you have heard in anti-mormon websites?
I came here to hear the truth about Catholics from Catholics and the truth I heard was very good, until the anti-mormons came aboard and did their best to degrade our prophets and our faith. When you ask questions we try to answer them truthfully, from our understanding, and you turn around and tell us we are lying. What kind of Christianity have you been taught? It certainly isn’t love thy neighbor. What you should do is just say that is interesting, but I don’t believe it because I have heard such and such. But, to totally trash the LDS church and tell lies that you have heard is simply not fair. We are not trying to convert you, and I was not even trying to convert my own husband, but you are doing a good job of it.
Imconfused,
It is your kind of Christianity that is turning my husband to the LDS church. He reads the whole forum back and forth between the two. He loves Tkdnick, Tamaque, and Augustine, and some others I can’t think of right now. They have explained the Catholic beliefs with love and kindness and with fairness… They have not maligned the LDS church in any way and have asked fair questions and heard the answers and did not come back with anti-mormon mucky muck.
My husband is the strongest most traditional Catholic I know, and for him to take the missionary lessons of the LDS church is something I would never have imagined in 10 lifetimes. He has attended both churches, every Sunday for 6 years and he has not seen the lies you have told in just this one post. So, again thanks for the help, I could never have even hoped for him to join the LDS church without your help. You have amazing power for turning people away from Catholicism with your rantings.
Let’s hear some more from you " imconfused" You may have him getting baptized soon if you keep up the hate posts. Thank You, Thank You and Thank you very much! 🙂 BJ
 
All,

Concerning the parable, one of the better pro-Catholic reads of the parable is that the “servants” in the parable are church leaders who oversee the wheat and tares (not that leaders cannot be tares, but all leaders have an overseer who is a “servant”). The continuity of the servants from the time of sowing to the time of reaping implies a continuity of the church.

My response, somewhat muted as it is, to this is that the servants are the reapers and thus the angels as Jesus mentioned when he interpreted the parable.
40.png
Jerusha:
But your role here, as self-delegated (?) missionary to Catholics already firm in their faith, is rather inappropriate. I see you have been hanging around this board for a year with no change, except perhaps, more anger, and more complex apologetics.
Click to expand...
Jerusha (and Imconfused and Catholic-RCIA),

I have said a number of times that my purpose in coming here was not to convert Catholics to the CoJCoLDS. Instead, I am here to show that the CoJCoLDS is not some “crazy” organization. One in which one must “take leave of their senses” to join.

BJ Colbert came here because she wanted to know more about the Catholic Church because here husband was Catholic and she was a LDS.

I think I am correct when I say that for both of us it stings a little when folks attempt to point to the CoJCoLDS as some ridiculous or evil organization through selective reporting, half truths, long refuted falsehoods, and outright lies. But, I try to respond only by pointing out that those who live in a glass house should not be throwing rocks (usually only alluding to the construction of the house rather than explicitly demonstrating it). Then Catholic-RCIA somehow thinks I am the one who should be educated upon the fact that all fall short of the glory of God. I guess I do not understand. If you continue on the path you walk you will never know how the Catholic Church compares to the CoJCoLDS when best is compared to best. AugustineH354 knows. I know. Some other folks know and make their judgments in the best way they can. But when you compare the best the Catholic Church has to offer with the selected things you point to concerning the CoJCoLDS you will never know.

Now as I have said before, committed Catholics who do not feel called to investigate the CoJCoLDS in my opinion do not have to do so. But I invite you and other Catholics to compare Best to Best if you are going to enter forums like this. Also to call for magazines like “This Rock” to not apply double standards when they defend the Catholic Church vs. attack other churches. It is sad.

Charity, TOm
 
If you continue on the path you walk you will never know how the Catholic Church compares to the CoJCoLDS when best is compared to best.
Click to expand...
It is indeed sad, when some of us have seen very little of what is the best of LDS people.
committed Catholics who do not feel called to investigate the CoJCoLDS in my opinion do not have to do so.
Click to expand...
Other LDS people do not accept that opinion.
 
BJColbert, if what you say is accurate, why is your husband ignoring the good examples among Catholics? Can we get some comment from him?
 
40.png
Jerusha:
Are you aware that until the second half of the 20th century, Native Americans wre prohibited from practicing their traditional religions? The potlach of the northwest tribes was prohibited, the sundance of the plains tribes was prohibited, and the NativeAmerican Church was and still is an underground church? Despite all three being compatible with Christianity? So much for religious freedom. :mad:
Click to expand...
I wasn’t aware of that, thank you for the information that you provide. There is so much to learn that we (meaning all people) will never learn it all. But, you have pointed out some things in this forum that interest me and make me want to learn more. I don’t understand the whys of a lot of the things that happened and are happening to Native Americans, and you have helped me to see some things I did not know. We have been watching the series on TNT called “Into the West” by Steven Spielberg. It is on again next week, and seems to be a very good depiction of the settling of the West from caucasion, black and Native American views. I would like to know your thoughts on the series, if you get a chance to see any of it. They play it Friday night at 8PM and 10PM, again Saturday and Sunday. The next program will be the 4th in the series. I don’t know if it is a fair depiction. It shows predjudice and love and all facets of human exchanges, good and bad. I think it is a very good show. 🙂 BJ
 
Brad Haas:
BJColbert, if what you say is accurate, why is your husband ignoring the good examples among Catholics? Can we get some comment from him?
Click to expand...
I think it is because the inaccuracies and out and out hatred by people such as"imconfused" have just finally made him want to take the lessons and find out for himself if he can see what they are saying is true. They point out that these things are hidden from the LDS people and he knows what the Book of Mormon teaches and he says as far as he can see now , after reading it twice and listening to CDs, the book could be true. He wants to know at what point the LDS church starts teaching all the hidden things that imconfused and others point out in these threads. He knows more about the LDS church from his own study and attending meetings than imconfused does and he wonders where she got her information, as it is totally wrong, from what he has seen in 6 years time.
I have also attended the Catholic Church for the past 6 years, we both had double doses every Sunday, and I had not seen the hatred in the people at mass that is shown in some of the posts here. I thought we were all getting along fine. In fact the LDS family that runs Mortuary here was given an award by the Catholic Church for 30 years of serving the Catholic Community in our town.
I have been shocked and hurt by some of the unfair postings here, and my husband has seen the out and out lies by these posters, and he just thought it would be good to investigate further. This is not to say he will join the LDS church, but at least this forum helped push him in that direction. The good Catholics in this forum are very good Christians, but the bad ones just override the good for now. We had that thread that has now been removed about temple garments and the poster “stupidgarments” went way beyond evil and hatred, and some others are not too far behind him in their postings.
I pointed out to my husband that we have to remember that there are only about 10 Catholics out of 1.2 Billion posting in here, so you are bound to get some bad ones. So we shall see what happens…I am not getting my hopes up, because I never expected this to happen. So it is entirely up to him, I have only told him to be the best Catholic that he could possibly be and he has been, and is.
He never misses mass and he donates 1/10 th of his income to the church. As long as he has just listened to the priest and the gospel everything was fine, it is when he started reading these posts, and also his mistreatment in the Catholic orphanage where he was placed at age 6. He has always had that in the back of his mind. He was raped, starved and beaten for about 7 years and even though it was over 60 years ago he still has strong flashbacks of the evil things that took place there.
I think if some of the posters that have said bad things about Mormons would stand back and look at their words, they would see how that looks to LDS and other Catholics, maybe they would try to be more fair and realize we are just trying to find out more about each others religion, not trash it. It is perfectly fine to disagree and to state what one believes as an alternate thought, but to say things that absolutely come straight from anti-mormon literature is not fair. 😦 BJ
 
I have only been able to see one episode. It looks pretty good and fair-- although there are certain things worth criticizing. It is definitely an improvement from what has been produced in the past.

It is not specific to my cultural heritage, since my Indian ancestors came from East of the Mississippi. I am also English, German, and Irish-- with some Euro ancestors who were here in pre-Revolutionary times.
 
Brad Haas:
BJColbert, if what you say is accurate, why is your husband ignoring the good examples among Catholics? Can we get some comment from him?
Click to expand...
Just to explain why my husband can’t respond directly. He is paralyzed on his right side and can’t type the words on the keyboard, so he depends on me to say what he wants to say and I print out the things that are not too long so he can read them at his leisure.
It has been a real education for both of us.

Also, thanks Jerusha, it is good to get your opinion of the show. At least I know it is somewhat accurate for the subject presented.
I’m sure it is hollywoodized a bit. BJ
 
ooops it is so difficult to stay on subject. The Apostacy, did not occur for Catholics, but did for LDS. That pretty much sums it up. Just different beliefs, nothing against Catholics except, that if we are right then our Church is the true Church of Jesus Christ, and if you are right then your church is the true Roman Catholic Church.
Simply a difference of oppinion, nothing to be angry or hateful about. If we didn’t believe it happened then we would be Catholics, simple as that. If you could prove it did not happen, I would join the Catholic Church today. The fact is faith is faith and nothing can be proven to anyone Catholic or Mormon who has faith in his own religion. So be at peace and just exchange ideas for better understanding.
🙂 BJ
 
40.png
TOmNossor:
Jerusha (and Imconfused and Catholic-RCIA),

I have said a number of times that my purpose in coming here was not to convert Catholics to the CoJCoLDS. Instead, I am here to show that the CoJCoLDS is not some “crazy” organization. One in which one must “take leave of their senses” to join.

Charity, TOm
Click to expand...
But Tom, you have failed in your mission, don’t you see that? The more you and B.J. explain, the nuttier it sounds. Why are you blaming us? You explained and explained and it still sounds crazy. Maybe if you explain for another couple of years or repeat yourself ten times more, maybe we will see the light! Or maybe you will have wasted your life, your soul, and those of others, in a religion that will only harm you and cannot give you what you need. Do you realize that here you all are working your rear ends off to obtain your heavenly degrees, in LDS land, while over here, it has already been handed to you for free, without effort on your part, and all you have to do is accept the gift of Christ? Accept His death on your behalf, stop trying to take his sheep away from him, stop trying to convert people away from him, and hey, man, you can even make a mistake or two and still gain Heaven, even if you have :eek: a cup of coffee in your hand. Even if you are not in your temple undergarments. :eek: Because He loved you that much. You do not have to do anything at all. Because He already did it! You, Tom, are spending your life trying to obtain what you already had.
 
Faith and works go hand-in-hand. There must be balance. I am talking about Redeeming Grace through Jesus Christ. Faith in JS and the BOM do not count. That is, if you want to call yourselves Christian.
 
Tom: let me give you a little tiny example of reality as pertains to my last post before jerusha’s. Many complaints arose at one time that the LDS store goods for themselves alone. The ward in the town where I lived a couple of years ago, advertises every year their charitable effort in donating backpacks and school supplies to the needy schoolchildren of said town. They publish their good work in the paper. Tom, do you have any idea where those backpacks and school supplies come from? Us. The Catholics. We donated them to their ward specifically for distribution to others. We spend all year gathering pencils, crayons, books, paper, binders, shoes, backpacks and then one weekend before Labor Day we drive the hundreds of packs over to the LDS Temple so the LDS can distribute them. Do you get my drift? One way or the other, Tom, you and all mormons will come to an understanding of Christ. Even if the type of “force” outlined above is used.Even if we have to do your work for you.
 
40.png
Imconfused:
Tom: let me give you a little tiny example of reality as pertains to my last post before jerusha’s. Many complaints arose at one time that the LDS store goods for themselves alone. The ward in the town where I lived a couple of years ago, advertises every year their charitable effort in donating backpacks and school supplies to the needy schoolchildren of said town. They publish their good work in the paper. Tom, do you have any idea where those backpacks and school supplies come from? Us. The Catholics. We donated them to their ward specifically for distribution to others. We spend all year gathering pencils, crayons, books, paper, binders, shoes, backpacks and then one weekend before Labor Day we drive the hundreds of packs over to the LDS Temple so the LDS can distribute them. Do you get my drift? One way or the other, Tom, you and all mormons will come to an understanding of Christ. Even if the type of “force” outlined above is used.Even if we have to do your work for you.
Click to expand...
You are even more confused than I thought. Don’t you have Catholic Charities in your town? Why would you donate to the LDS church, unless you are all working together on a particular project, which both churchs do in my town. I’m sorry, but the LDS church hardly ever gets recognition for the charity work they do. They donate to whichever organization is best able to distribute the goods, and many times the Catholic Charities all over the world have a better infrastucture to distribute the donations. In the Tsunami disaster the LDS Church donated millions of dollars and a lot of it went to Catholic Charities and Red Cross. I have not heard one word about the Church getting credit for that and I have heard the Catholic Charities on TV last week getting a lot of accolades. That is fine, because we do not do the work for recognition, but for the blessings of helping others.
I would suggest next time you find a different place for your donations where you may get the recognition you deserve. It is obvious you were in it for the recognition, not for helping the needy.
I have never heard of a donation drive at an LDS Temple, but I may be wrong. Usually that would be done at the local LDS Church building.
I don’t know if I have it correct (in your way of knowing Christ) but this is what He means to me. He is Jesus Christ, my Saviour, my Redeemer. He suffered, bled and died on the Cross to atone for my sins and the sins of the world, which means that if we repent and are baptized and accept His Atonement and keep His commandments, we may all live with Him some day(including you) Mormons do not have it wrapped up excluding Catholics, as you claim to exclude Mormons, and others, you do not agree with.
The good news is He LIVES and guides His Church in these latter days. Unlike the Catholic Church, which claims to have no more direction than they did in Biblical times, we have constant guidance and revelation, through a living Prophet. We love all mankind and try to help all in need. The food supply we store for emergency is for our neighbors and friends and family in case of disaster, and has been shared as such when fire, hurricane and earthquakes have struck. It is not for the exclusive use of the persons storing it. Besides why would that bother you, you have time to store your own if you want to. It is simply a good idea to be prepared.
👍 Happy 4th of July, what a wonderful country we live in where we can discuss our different beliefs and celebrate our freedom together. BJ
 
BJ Colbert:
You are even more confused than I thought. Don’t you have Catholic Charities in your town? Why would you donate to the LDS church, unless you are all working together on a particular project, which both churchs do in my town. I’m sorry, but the LDS church hardly ever gets recognition for the charity work they do. They donate to whichever organization is best able to distribute the goods, and many times the Catholic Charities all over the world have a better infrastucture to distribute the donations. In the Tsunami disaster the LDS Church donated millions of dollars and a lot of it went to Catholic Charities and Red Cross. I have not heard one word about the Church getting credit for that and I have heard the Catholic Charities on TV last week getting a lot of accolades. That is fine, because we do not do the work for recognition, but for the blessings of helping others.
I would suggest next time you find a different place for your donations where you may get the recognition you deserve. It is obvious you were in it for the recognition, not for helping the needy.
I have never heard of a donation drive at an LDS Temple, but I may be wrong. Usually that would be done at the local LDS Church building.
I don’t know if I have it correct (in your way of knowing Christ) but this is what He means to me. He is Jesus Christ, my Saviour, my Redeemer. He suffered, bled and died on the Cross to atone for my sins and the sins of the world, which means that if we repent and are baptized and accept His Atonement and keep His commandments, we may all live with Him some day(including you) Mormons do not have it wrapped up excluding Catholics, as you claim to exclude Mormons, and others, you do not agree with.
The good news is He LIVES and guides His Church in these latter days. Unlike the Catholic Church, which claims to have no more direction than they did in Biblical times, we have constant guidance and revelation, through a living Prophet. We love all mankind and try to help all in need. The food supply we store for emergency is for our neighbors and friends and family in case of disaster, and has been shared as such when fire, hurricane and earthquakes have struck. It is not for the exclusive use of the persons storing it. Besides why would that bother you, you have time to store your own if you want to. It is simply a good idea to be prepared.
👍 Happy 4th of July, what a wonderful country we live in where we can discuss our different beliefs and celebrate our freedom together. BJ
Click to expand...
Why indeed, B.J.? why indeed would the Catholic church provide the donation material for the LDS church to distribute? Why indeed.
 
BJ Colbert:
I don’t know if I have it correct (in your way of knowing Christ) but this is what He means to me. He is Jesus Christ, my Saviour, my Redeemer. He suffered, bled and died on the Cross to atone for my sins and the sins of the world, which means that if we repent and are baptized and accept His Atonement and keep His commandments, we may all live with Him some day(including you) Mormons do not have it wrapped up excluding Catholics, as you claim to exclude Mormons, and others, you do not agree with.
The good news is He LIVES and guides His Church in these latter days. BJ
Click to expand...
yes, you love him so much, you keep his picture in the lobby for fear of worshiping it if you put it in the Church proper.
And if what you say is true, what in the world do you need Joseph Smith for? Wasn’t what Christ did enough? Or can Joseph Smith do more for you than Christ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top