Apostacy by 570 A.D / For Casen and us

[BJ_Colbert]

Imconfused:

But Tom, you have failed in your mission, don’t you see that? The more you and B.J. explain, the nuttier it sounds. Why are you blaming us? You explained and explained and it still sounds crazy. Maybe if you explain for another couple of years or repeat yourself ten times more, maybe we will see the light! Or maybe you will have wasted your life, your soul, and those of others, in a religion that will only harm you and cannot give you what you need. Do you realize that here you all are working your rear ends off to obtain your heavenly degrees, in LDS land, while over here, it has already been handed to you for free, without effort on your part, and all you have to do is accept the gift of Christ? Accept His death on your behalf, stop trying to take his sheep away from him, stop trying to convert people away from him, and hey, man, you can even make a mistake or two and still gain Heaven, even if you have a cup of coffee in your hand. Even if you are not in your temple undergarments. Because He loved you that much. You do not have to do anything at all. Because He already did it! You, Tom, are spending your life trying to obtain what you already had.

imconfused, He still loves you with a cup of coffee in your hand and if you make a mistake, or a lot of mistakes. He loves the drunk, the drug addict, the prostitute, the liers, the thieves and you. He love us all the same, we are his children and if you have children and love them, you know how much more Jesus loves you and me. I am a sinner and although you are perfect, he still loves me as much as he loves you. No matter how you protest that he does not love Mormons, it doesn’t change the fact that he loves us all. No matter how many times you repeat yourself, he still keeps loving all of us and you. You are wrong about not having to do anything, because your being saved depends on following his commandments as much as you possibly can. “Faith without works is dead.” His work is accomplished by his children on earth working to help each other. When you donate you are doing God’s work for Him and you should do it for Him and not for the recognition you want to receive. Try giving just to give and help others, you will feel a lot better about it than giving with the hope of recognition and then harboring bitterness over what you gave that others did not recognize.
Tomorrow I am driving 200 miles to meet up with a friend, to whom I am delivering several bags of children’s clothes, books and toys, so that she can take them to a Catholic Orphanage near Tijuana, Mexico. No one but you and her will know I did this for a Catholic Orphanage, because I do not care if anyone knows. I am doing it because these children need help.
Remember, you can not just sit back and say you are saved and nothing else has to be done. If that were the case some of us would do whatever we wanted to do kill, rape, steal and generally wreak havoc in the world and we would get just the same reward as the person who keeps the commandments. That is not going to happen, no matter how you wish it would. You still must be as good as you can be, with the understanding of Christ’s atonement that you have. He knows you do not understand completely and He will not judge you for what you do not know.
BJ

 

[Jerusha]

Why indeed, B.J.? why indeed would the Catholic church provide the donation material for the LDS church to distribute? Why indeed.

Perhaps excessive trust is the issue??? Certainly not a wise thing to do. :nope:

Have a cup of coffee, imconfused? I got one for BJ, if she wants some. Got cream and sugar and lots of different flavorings.

 

[Imconfused]

BJ Colbert:

imconfused, He still loves you with a cup of coffee in your hand and if you make a mistake, or a lot of mistakes. He loves the drunk, the drug addict, the prostitute, the liers, the thieves and you. He love us all the same, we are his children and if you have children and love them, you know how much more Jesus loves you and me. I am a sinner and although you are perfect, he still loves me as much as he loves you. No matter how you protest that he does not love Mormons, it doesn’t change the fact that he loves us all. No matter how many times you repeat yourself, he still keeps loving all of us and you. You are wrong about not having to do anything, because your being saved depends on following his commandments as much as you possibly can. “Faith without works is dead.” His work is accomplished by his children on earth working to help each other. When you donate you are doing God’s work for Him and you should do it for Him and not for the recognition you want to receive. Try giving just to give and help others, you will feel a lot better about it than giving with the hope of recognition and then harboring bitterness over what you gave that others did not recognize.
Tomorrow I am driving 200 miles to meet up with a friend, to whom I am delivering several bags of children’s clothes, books and toys, so that she can take them to a Catholic Orphanage near Tijuana, Mexico. No one but you and her will know I did this for a Catholic Orphanage, because I do not care if anyone knows. I am doing it because these children need help.
Remember, you can not just sit back and say you are saved and nothing else has to be done. If that were the case some of us would do whatever we wanted to do kill, rape, steal and generally wreak havoc in the world and we would get just the same reward as the person who keeps the commandments. That is not going to happen, no matter how you wish it would. You still must be as good as you can be, with the understanding of Christ’s atonement that you have. He knows you do not understand completely and He will not judge you for what you do not know.
BJ

Again I ask you- if what you say is true- what in the world do you need Joseph Smith for? What exactly did he do for you that was not already done by Christ? For some reason, B.J. you seem unable to answer that question although you monologue quite well on this other stuff. If Christ is who you say he is, then placing Joseph Smith as equal is an extreme insult to Christ.

 

[Jerusha]

**

Matthew 6​

**Giving to the Needy **

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.     2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

**

Tomorrow I am driving 200 miles to meet up with a friend, to whom I am delivering several bags of children’s clothes, books and toys, so that she can take them to a Catholic Orphanage near Tijuana, Mexico. No one but you and her will know I did this for a Catholic Orphanage, because I do not care if anyone knows.

BJ— this is the internet!!!

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Imconfused:

Again I ask you- if what you say is true- what in the world do you need Joseph Smith for? What exactly did he do for you that was not already done by Christ? For some reason, B.J. you seem unable to answer that question although you monologue quite well on this other stuff. If Christ is who you say he is, then placing Joseph Smith as equal is an extreme insult to Christ.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is who I believe he is? If you believe then why do you need Mary or the Pope or any priest or bishop? Why do you need Catechism or the Marian Doctrines or any other writings of the Catholic Church. Why do you need 5 or 6 different translations of the Bible?
Jesus Christ restored the keys of the priesthood and re-established His Church in the original form as it was when He was on earth in Biblical times. Jesus Christ did it through a boy who was preordained to restore the Gospel of Jesus Christ, without the deletions and changes that occured over 1500 years or more. Joseph Smith is not an equal to Jesus Christ, he was His servant. Just as the Pope is a servant of Jesus Christ, not equal.

Jerusha, do you think the LDS church took imconfused books and pencils and did something unworthy with them?

Then maybe the LDS Church should not trust the Catholic Charities with millions of dollars(ask the Catholic Charities how much they get from the LDS church that could be interesting).
Should I not trust my friend to take the carload of stuff to the Catholic Orphanage? It would never cross my mind that she would not deliver it, we have done this every year for at least 5 years, and I trust her to do it again. Maybe because she is Catholic, I should not trust her? But, she is my sister and I love her and trust her with my life. BJ

Darn it,we are way off the subject again, sorry. What subject is this anyway.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

**


BJ— this is the internet!!!**

Oops, at least 5 other people will know, if they even read this stuff. Oh well too late…LOL BJ

 

[Imconfused]

BJ Colbert:

Do you believe Jesus Christ is who I believe he is? If you believe then why do you need Mary or the Pope or any priest or bishop? Why do you need Catechism or the Marian Doctrines or any other writings of the Catholic Church. Why do you need 5 or 6 different translations of the Bible?
Jesus Christ restored the keys of the priesthood and re-established His Church in the original form as it was when He was on earth in Biblical times. Jesus Christ did it through a boy who was preordained to restore the Gospel of Jesus Christ, without the deletions and changes that occured over 1500 years or more. Joseph Smith is not an equal to Jesus Christ, he was His servant. Just as the Pope is a servant of Jesus Christ, not equal.

Jerusha, do you think the LDS church took imconfused books and pencils and did something unworthy with them?

Then maybe the LDS Church should not trust the Catholic Charities with millions of dollars(ask the Catholic Charities how much they get from the LDS church that could be interesting).
Should I not trust my friend to take the carload of stuff to the Catholic Orphanage? It would never cross my mind that she would not deliver it, we have done this every year for at least 5 years, and I trust her to do it again. Maybe because she is Catholic, I should not trust her? But, she is my sister and I love her and trust her with my life. BJ

Darn it,we are way off the subject again, sorry. What subject is this anyway.

B.J., In the name of God, woman, what are you ranting about now? Of course the LDS did nothing unworthy of them. I said the LDS were crazy, not stupid.
Jerusha- make mine a double espresso with a shot of JD thrown in will you?

 

[Jerusha]

Certainly, I will serve that!! I don’t drink, but you are welcome to that one!!!

 

[Imconfused]

BJ Colbert:

Darn it,we are way off the subject again, sorry. What subject is this anyway.

Hmmmm- Jerusha it would appear that maybe B.J. beat me to the Irish espresso. But then, I have no pioneers in my family.

 

[Jerusha]

She must be tippling tonight. She really isn’t making much sense.

That or she has an excessive number of pioneers in her family tree!!

 

[BJRumph]

While it is certainly alright to disagree with Colbert’s beliefs, and even her methodology of defence of her beliefs, methinks you have crossed the line a bit, and are at this point losing ground, not making it.

Don’t you to think that enough is enough? The line has been crossed on both sides, lets just call it a day, and get back to letting the lds present their position that the Church was apostate by 570 AD, and their supporting rationale.

Just a suggestion

Caritas numquam excidit

 

[stillsearching]

BJRumph:

While it is certainly alright to disagree with Colbert’s beliefs, and even her methodology of defence of her beliefs, methinks you have crossed the line a bit, and are at this point losing ground, not making it.

Don’t you to think that enough is enough? The line has been crossed on both sides, lets just call it a day, and get back to letting the lds present their position that the Church was apostate by 570 AD, and their supporting rationale.

Just a suggestion

Caritas numquam excidit

actually, what is wrong with what she said? If a religion’s theology sounds crazy to a person, let them say so. First the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses try to cram their religions down everyone throats at the front door and now Catholic answers supports their doing it here. Silly.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Imconfused:

Hmmmm- Jerusha it would appear that maybe B.J. beat me to the Irish espresso. But then, I have no pioneers in my family.

You are right, I had a virgin margarita, they must have slipped some tequila in it. Hey, ladies it was fun bantering with you, and no hard feelings OK. I do get carried away sometimes, kind of a frustrated writer. It is a joke in my family, that I should have been a writer. So I’m just practicing on you, I really don’t know anything but what is in my heart, and that is what I write about. It probably doesn’t make much sense to you all, but thanks for reading it anyway. BJ

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Jerusha:

She must be tippling tonight. She really isn’t making much sense.

That or she has an excessive number of pioneers in her family tree!!

I just really love you two, I mean really I do. It has been fun. Don’t pay any attention to the searcher and BJrumph, we were fine. At least I think we were. We didn’t stay on subject, but who cares no one else was posting. I only had one really large Margarita… BJ

 

[Jerusha]

Imconfused and I were only having some conversation between ourselves out of frustration. No intent to alienate, it is just that her reality and logic are so strange.

 

[MrS]

BJ Colbert:

I also want to add, that I do not see anything in the LDS posts berating Catholics and calling them evil or crazy or any of the ugly things the Catholics say about us. I have seen more evil words from some of these Catholics than I have ever seen anywhere in my life. I came here searching for answers about Catholics and stayed to clarify mis-information and hate filled posts about Mormons.
The hatred expressed here has made my husband question whether he wants to be a Catholic any more and he is now taking the Missionary lessons. So, what I could not do in 6 years you all have accomplished in a few months time. Amazing, thank you for your help.
BJ

so in your bio, where you state your spouse is a practicing Catholic, perhaps that is not the case? If he were drawing on the wealth of Truth found only in the Catholic Church, his faith would strengthen, not weaken. Personally, I want to include him in my prayers.

I have often met with elders of the LDS. I find them, without exception, to be charitable, kind, and consistent. Only their level of zeal varies. However, none are able to answer some of the tough questions other than to say “I’ll ask my bishop”, or “we don’t rely on reason to believe what we believe”

 

[stillsearching]

BJ Colbert:

This is a good example of what I was talking about. I think it was a Catholic who asked the LDS to explain what we believe about the Apostacy. Did we asked you to believe our explanation? No. We simply answered the question put forth by you. Some of us are doing a good job of exchanging ideas in a peaceful and respectful manner and here is the kind of post I was talking about, that is full of lies and anti-Mormon rhetoric. Why are you in a thread of Catholic-LDS exchange of ideas, if you want to spout hatred? Why can’t you tell the truth and not repeat all the lies you have heard in anti-mormon websites?
I came here to hear the truth about Catholics from Catholics and the truth I heard was very good, until the anti-mormons came aboard and did their best to degrade our prophets and our faith. When you ask questions we try to answer them truthfully, from our understanding, and you turn around and tell us we are lying. What kind of Christianity have you been taught? It certainly isn’t love thy neighbor. What you should do is just say that is interesting, but I don’t believe it because I have heard such and such. But, to totally trash the LDS church and tell lies that you have heard is simply not fair. We are not trying to convert you, and I was not even trying to convert my own husband, but you are doing a good job of it.
Imconfused,
It is your kind of Christianity that is turning my husband to the LDS church. He reads the whole forum back and forth between the two. He loves Tkdnick, Tamaque, and Augustine, and some others I can’t think of right now. They have explained the Catholic beliefs with love and kindness and with fairness… They have not maligned the LDS church in any way and have asked fair questions and heard the answers and did not come back with anti-mormon mucky muck.
My husband is the strongest most traditional Catholic I know, and for him to take the missionary lessons of the LDS church is something I would never have imagined in 10 lifetimes. He has attended both churches, every Sunday for 6 years and he has not seen the lies you have told in just this one post. So, again thanks for the help, I could never have even hoped for him to join the LDS church without your help. You have amazing power for turning people away from Catholicism with your rantings.
Let’s hear some more from you " imconfused" You may have him getting baptized soon if you keep up the hate posts. Thank You, Thank You and Thank you very much! BJ

Dude, your husband converted because of a poster on an internet forum? wow. The Mormons and JW’s been at my door for years and it didn’t do anything for me. Wow. Catholics have incredible power on the internet. They can bring you in and made you convert right back out again on post. This is good. I’m in RCIA. I hope they teach me how to do that. Wild, dude.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Apostacy by 570 A.D

I think it would be a good idea to post the things that were happening in the Church from say 450 A.D. to say 650 A.D.

Who were the Saints? What did they write about etc… anything else you can find on the Church during these times.

What were the good things happening in the church and what was the bad?

 

[tkdnick]

Wow, such a polite, happy thread! (serious sarcasm)

RCIA,
Do you have some things to post about what was happening around that time?

I know that in the early 400s we had some local councils that stated what would be in the Canon of Scripture (I think 419 was the one closest to your timeframe).

Most LDS I talk to hold the belief that the Apostacy occurred after the death of the last Apostle, so somewhere around 100 ad.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

stillsearching:

Dude, your husband converted because of a poster on an internet forum? wow. The Mormons and JW’s been at my door for years and it didn’t do anything for me. Wow. Catholics have incredible power on the internet. They can bring you in and made you convert right back out again on post. This is good. I’m in RCIA. I hope they teach me how to do that. Wild, dude.

I haven’t said he converted. I said he is taking the missionary lessons and reading mainly to find out where these wild claims are that some of the posters here have said about Mormons. In six years of attending the LDS church he has not come across some of the weird things claimed in these posts. Just as in six years of attending Catholic Mass, I have not seen any of the weird things claimed by anti-Catholics about the Catholic Church. He is only reading and investigating, not joining. The posts caused him to have questions. That is all…BJ