Apostles and Presbyters

[Usbek_de_Perse]

OK, this question is not asked with any kind of denominational ax to grind. I am Episcopalian and we have the same three orders as the Roman and Eastern churches. I am aware, that there are serious objections to the validity of Anglican orders, but please don’t let that issue get in the way of my question.

We know that Jesus Christ named the twelve apostles, and gave them the great commission to spread the gospel and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And we know from Acts, that they chose Matthias to take the place of the disgraced and killed Judas Iscariot, and that they laid their hands upon him to convey the Holy Ghost and make him one with them. At that point there were both apostles (bishops) and deacons.

My question is this: Who came up with the idea of the middle order of the Presbyters? By what authority did they ordain Presbyters with less than the full power of Apostles? Again, I am not pressing some denominational agenda. I am just curious.

 

[Trishie]

Hi, Usbek de Perse
I looked up presbyters as it isn’t a word in common Catholic usage:
presbyter ˈprɛzbɪtə]n1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms)a. an elder of a congregation in the early Christian Church
b. (in some Churches having episcopal politics) an official who is subordinate to a bishop and has administrative, teaching, and sacerdotal functions

2. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) (in some hierarchical Churches) another name for priest
3. (Christianity / Protestantism) (in the Presbyterian Church)a. a teaching elder
b. a ruling elder[from Late Latin, from Greek *presbuteros an older man, from presbus old man]

If you don’t find these sources helpful, then I shall look further.

May God bless you.

archive.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0503fea4.asp

and

newadvent.org/cathen/11279a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/02581b.htm

old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3.shtml

 

[FrDavid96]

OK, this question is not asked with any kind of denominational ax to grind. I am Episcopalian and we have the same three orders as the Roman and Eastern churches. I am aware, that there are serious objections to the validity of Anglican orders, but please don’t let that issue get in the way of my question.

We know that Jesus Christ named the twelve apostles, and gave them the great commission to spread the gospel and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And we know from Acts, that they chose Matthias to take the place of the disgraced and killed Judas Iscariot, and that they laid their hands upon him to convey the Holy Ghost and make him one with them. At that point there were both apostles (bishops) and deacons.

My question is this: Who came up with the idea of the middle order of the Presbyters? By what authority did they ordain Presbyters with less than the full power of Apostles? Again, I am not pressing some denominational agenda. I am just curious.

I don’t think anyone knows the answer. We don’t have any historical record that says “so and so was the first presbyter” or that a particular city was the first to have priests.

St Ignatius of Antioch (d. 115) already makes mention of bishops, presbyters and deacons, so we know that it’s at least that old.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-polycarp-lightfoot.html

What we do know is that priests were ordained to be the “substitutes” for the bishop. As the Church grew, one bishop for a given city (or village or town, whatever) was just not enough to accomodate all the faithful. The bishop generally stayed in the center while priests were sent out to the “country” to provide for the needs of the people who could not necessarily come to the bishop for their spiritual needs. The presbyters were also the bishop’s helpers and advisors, forming a sort of council to help the bishop in governance.

I’m not trying to say that the structure was established and settled by the 2nd century–it was still in its infancy, so bear with me on that.

In the very early Church, some of the presbyters were priests (sacerdos) who offered the Sacrifice, and some were not; the later being the bishop’s advisors and helpers but not ordained.

 

[Chatter163]

Some consider the 72 disciples chosen by Our Lord as assisting the bishops in spreading their work far and wide–the first presbyters.