Apostolic authority ended with Apostles?

[MarkInOregon]

Matthias was chosen before Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit. As stated in Acts 1:20 Matthias was chosen according to scripture which was in Psalm 69:25 and Psalm 109:8

For me, I can’t really find much support in Scripture for continued Apostolic authority.

You do realize it is the continued apostolic authority that gave us the Scriptures don’t you?

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

They did eventually.
It says in Acts 6:5 that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirt before he had hands laid on him and the others in verse 6. I think they were being ordained/commissioned, but this wasn’t their initial filling with the Holy Spirit. What did they receive?

The Samaritans got the Holy Spirit when He was administered through Peter and John. So that is another +1 for apostolic authority.

 

[rcwitness]

The Holy Spirit is received at Baptism. The Samaritans were not Baptized in the Trinity, so they relied on Confirmation to receive the Spirit.

Others received the Spirit at hearing Peter’s preaching. They received Baptism for the forgiveness of sins (like we all do).

Confirmation (aka Laying on Hands) is not the only means to receive the Holy Spirit. It IS a strengthening, for sure.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why do (some) Protestants believe that Apostolic authority ended with the death of the last Apostle? What is the basis for their position?

Matthias was chosen before Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit. As stated in Acts 1:20 Matthias was chosen according to scripture which was in Psalm 69:25 and Psalm 109:8

For me, I can’t really find much support in Scripture for continued Apostolic authority.

Let me start with Peter, and we can extrapolate from there…

Peter – The Royal Steward

Here are two questions that need to be answered:

1. Is Jesus a king?
2. Did He re-establish the office of the Royal Steward?

You probably said “Yes” quickly to the first question, but you may have hesitated or even answered “No” to the second. Let’s take a look at what scripture and history tell us about the office of the Royal Steward.

In ancient times, a king might choose a second in command (known as the royal steward or prime minister) who literally wore a large key as a symbol of his office and who spoke with the authority of the king. The prophet Isaiah confirms this:

Isaiah 22:20-22
"In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.”

In the passage above, God is speaking to Shebnah, an unfaithful steward serving King Hezekiah. God is telling Shebnah that he is about to be replaced by Eliakim, and this confirms the existence of the office, the key worn as a symbol of the office, and the continuation of the office in perpetuity – despite the change of office holder. In other words, the office of the royal steward continued even when the man who held the office died or was replaced by someone else. God Himself passes the key from one steward to the next.

In the New Testament, we learn that Jesus inherits the throne of his father, David.

Luke 1:31–33
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.

We also read the following:

Matthew 16:13-19
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

The passage quoted above from Matthew tells us that Jesus named Peter as His royal steward and gave him the “keys to the kingdom of heaven" as the symbol of his authority to speak in His name. Since Jesus is an eternal king, the office of royal steward in His kingdom will never end. Peter died as a martyr as Jesus foretold, but the successors of Peter have taken his place in the perpetual office that Jesus established in His royal court.

In addition to the reference to a key or keys, note the following parallels:

"What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” (Is. 22:22)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Mt. 16:19)

Jesus specifically referenced the passage from Isaiah when He appointed Peter to the office of Royal Steward granting him the authority to speak universally in His name. To do so faithfully, Peter could not teach error. God’s protection of His own flock by preventing the formal teaching of error in His name is referred to as “infallibility”.

**Therefore, if Jesus, our eternal king, established Peter as His first Royal Steward in a perpetual office, then don’t Peter’s successors, the Bishops of Rome, continue to serve in that office today? **

 

[Randy_Carson]

They need to do this to justify their existence as a separate Church, and to attempt to erode the authority of the Catholic Church.

:sad_yes:

 

[SJacob7]

Also consider Matthew 28. Jesus told the apostles He gives them His authority and He will be with them until the end of the time.

Jesus also said to Peter- I give you (Peter) the keys, and the gates of hell will never prevail.

It is like the previous poster said. If you have a protest, you have to find a way to negate all this.

Jesus never gives the apostles authority in Matthew 28 or any where else in Scripture. In Matthew 28 Jesus tells them “all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” After that He tells them what to do.

So how much authority belongs to someone else when Jesus has all authority? Jesus has all authority, not man.

 

[SJacob7]

Let me start with Peter, and we can extrapolate from there…

Peter – The Royal Steward

Here are two questions that need to be answered:

1. Is Jesus a king?
2. Did He re-establish the office of the Royal Steward?

You probably said “Yes” quickly to the first question, but you may have hesitated or even answered “No” to the second. Let’s take a look at what scripture and history tell us about the office of the Royal Steward.

In ancient times, a king might choose a second in command (known as the royal steward or prime minister) who literally wore a large key as a symbol of his office and who spoke with the authority of the king. The prophet Isaiah confirms this:

Isaiah 22:20-22
"In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.”

In the passage above, God is speaking to Shebnah, an unfaithful steward serving King Hezekiah. God is telling Shebnah that he is about to be replaced by Eliakim, and this confirms the existence of the office, the key worn as a symbol of the office, and the continuation of the office in perpetuity – despite the change of office holder. In other words, the office of the royal steward continued even when the man who held the office died or was replaced by someone else. God Himself passes the key from one steward to the next.

In the New Testament, we learn that Jesus inherits the throne of his father, David.

Luke 1:31–33
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.

We also read the following:

Matthew 16:13-19
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

The passage quoted above from Matthew tells us that Jesus named Peter as His royal steward and gave him the “keys to the kingdom of heaven" as the symbol of his authority to speak in His name. Since Jesus is an eternal king, the office of royal steward in His kingdom will never end. Peter died as a martyr as Jesus foretold, but the successors of Peter have taken his place in the perpetual office that Jesus established in His royal court.

In addition to the reference to a key or keys, note the following parallels:

"What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” (Is. 22:22)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Mt. 16:19)

Jesus specifically referenced the passage from Isaiah when He appointed Peter to the office of Royal Steward granting him the authority to speak universally in His name. To do so faithfully, Peter could not teach error. God’s protection of His own flock by preventing the formal teaching of error in His name is referred to as “infallibility”.

Therefore, if Jesus, our eternal king, established Peter as His first Royal Steward in a perpetual office, then don’t Peter’s successors, the Bishops of Rome, continue to serve in that office today?

Using the word ‘keys’ does not assume authority, other than what keys do. They open and close. If the word ‘keys’ also meant authority, there would have been no reason in Isaiah to use the word authority. But it is used there, but not in Matthew 16. Nowhere does God give man the authority to control His Kingdom. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth as stated in Matthew 28.

Peter did have the keys to open the Kingdom of God. He used those ‘keys’ to open the Kingdom of God to so many people at Pentecost. When we have keys, we can open and shut. But we can’t control or have authority of what is inside. If I give you the keys to my house, you can open and shut it, but you don’t have authority to replace, change around, or take anything from it unless I give you authority to do so.

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus gave His apostles His authority to bind and to loosen on earth. Jesus said whatever they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and whatever they loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. the authority Jesus gave to the apostles included the authority to pass the authority He gave to them on to their successors.

we know this because, that is what happened. from the beginning, successors to the apostles were chosen. if the authority Jesus gave to His apostles had limitations, Jesus would have told them and us what those limitations were. we have no evidence that the authority that Jesus gave the apostles was restricted to them. in fact, all evidence that we do have indicates it did not end with their deaths.

to dispute that the apostles had the authority to give their powers to successors, a person needs to tell us where Jesus limited, in this manner, the authority He gave to the apostles.

when did Jesus limit the power to bind and loosen? ask the doubters that.

 

[Erich]

I found this link to be a good read.

 

[MT1926]

Jesus never gives the apostles authority in Matthew 28 or any where else in Scripture. In Matthew 28 Jesus tells them “all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” After that He tells them what to do.

So how much authority belongs to someone else when Jesus has all authority? Jesus has all authority, not man.

What kind of question is that. Let’s at least use a little common sense here. Yes Jesus was given all authority but another person can have as much authority that Jesus is willing to give to them until his return. My wife and I have all authority in our household because the house is ours. If we decide to take a trip together then we pass that authority onto someone else until our return. Just as Jesus did with his Apostles and the successors of the Apostles until the second coming.

What does binding an loosing mean to you?
Matthew 16:19

19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,[a] and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Seems pretty authoritative to me.

 

[Erich]

In Matthew 28 Jesus tells them “all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” After that He tells them what to do.

God the Father (the superior authority) sends Jesus Christ “…these very works which I am doing, bear me witness that the Father has sent me.” (John 5:36)
Jesus, in turn, sends the Apostles “…As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” (John 20:21)
Jesus sends these Apostles “as the Father has sent me,” that is, in the same manner, with the same authority: “all authority.”
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” (Matt. 28:18)

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus never gives the apostles authority in Matthew 28 or any where else in Scripture. In Matthew 28 Jesus tells them “all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” After that He tells them what to do.

So how much authority belongs to someone else when Jesus has all authority? Jesus has all authority, not man.

How did the Father send Jesus? With all authority.

How did Jesus send His disciples? With all authority.

How do we know this?

John 20:21
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Using the word ‘keys’ does not assume authority, other than what keys do. They open and close. If the word ‘keys’ also meant authority, there would have been no reason in Isaiah to use the word authority. But it is used there, but not in Matthew 16. Nowhere does God give man the authority to control His Kingdom. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth as stated in Matthew 28.

The keys were worn by the Royal Steward as a SYMBOL of their authority to act in the name of the king. Sure, the king has all authority, but he delegates that authority to the Steward as you will see below.

Peter did have the keys to open the Kingdom of God. He used those ‘keys’ to open the Kingdom of God to so many people at Pentecost. When we have keys, we can open and shut. But we can’t control or have authority of what is inside. If I give you the keys to my house, you can open and shut it, but you don’t have authority to replace, change around, or take anything from it unless I give you authority to do so.

Bad analogy. The kings did not give the keys to simply open and close the city gates; they gave the Royal Stewards full authority to act in their name. Here are some parallels from scripture:

Scripture Parallels: Joseph, Eliakim, and Peter

Joseph - Genesis 41:40-44
40 You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you.” 41 So Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt.” 42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph’s finger. He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck. 43 He had him ride in a chariot as his second-in-command, and people shouted before him, “Make way!” Thus he put him in charge of the whole land of Egypt. 44 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, but without your word no one will lift hand or foot in all Egypt.”

• Steward over Pharaoh’s kingdom
• Second in command
• Dressed in robes with gold chain around neck as symbols of authority
• Universal jurisdiction throughout the land of Egypt
• No one lifts hand or foot without Joseph’s word

Eliakim - Isaiah 22:20-22
20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

• Steward over Hezekiah’s kingdom
• Second in command
• Dressed in robe and sash with key on shoulder as symbols of authority
• Universal jurisdiction throughout Jerusalem and Judah
• No one opens or shuts without Eliakim

Peter - Matthew 16:18-20
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

• Steward over Jesus’ kingdom
• Second in command (cf. John 21:15-19 vicarious shepherd of the one flock)
• Given keys as symbol of authority
• Universal jurisdiction over all of Jesus’ kingdom
• Authority to bind and loose in heaven and on earth