apostolic church

[jimmyjames]

i was in a discussion with a friend of mine the other day on the necessity of church tenets to have originated from the teachings of the Apostles. One problem he has with the Catholic Church is its teaching on the dogmas of Mary’s immaculate conception and her Assumption into Heaven. It’s not so much that he doesn’t believe these things are not possible or that they did not happen. His problem with these doctrines is the lack of proof he has gotten from Catholics for it’s apostolic origin.

He understands that for a dogma to be true it has to have been traced as being taught by an Apostle. His question is which Apostle taught the immaculate conception and the Assumption of Mary?

 

[Old_Scholar]

i was in a discussion with a friend of mine the other day on the necessity of church tenets to have originated from the teachings of the Apostles. One problem he has with the Catholic Church is its teaching on the dogmas of Mary’s immaculate conception and her Assumption into Heaven. It’s not so much that he doesn’t believe these things are not possible or that they did not happen. His problem with these doctrines is the lack of proof he has gotten from Catholics for it’s apostolic origin.

He understands that for a dogma to be true it has to have been traced as being taught by an Apostle. His question is which Apostle taught the immaculate conception and the Assumption of Mary?

This one is easy—none of them did!

 

[Nita]

We don’t hold that all our doctrines were explicitly taught by Scripture and/or the apostles (not just the apostles, but Scripture also). They can be present implicitly.

Also, the Church believes in development of doctrine.
CCC #66 …*Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries. *

Examples of Scripture that implicitly contain Mary’s Immaculate Conception:
Gen 3:15 enmity between the devil and the woman

Luke 1:28 *“Hail, full of grace!” *
Angel uses “full of grace” as Mary’s name.

Luke 1:41 *“Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” *
From Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma - “Tlhe blessing of God which rests upon Mary is made parallel to the blessing of God which rests upon Christ in His humanity. This parallelism suggests that Mary, just like Christ, was from the beginning of her existence, free from all sin.”

Typology between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant - pure gold.

Nita

 

[ricko]

Try this link.
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9112fea1.asp

 

[copland]

jimmyjames,

I know for me, I was won over to all Catholic dogma when I realized that the Catholic Church was the Church that Jesus Christ Himself established. If he believes that you have to be able to trace a dogma straight back to one of the 12 Apostles, then why does he believe that? On what authority does that in itself come from. The earliest writings from the Christian Church absolutely with out a doubt practiced Apostolic Succession. St. Clement, who is mentioned by St. Paul in the Bible, wrote this in chapter 44,

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.

I think to win your friend over you have to win him over on Apostolic Succession first, and then if he trust Christ then he will trust Christs’ Church, the Catholic Church.

 

[YADA]

This one is easy—none of them did!

Except maybe St. John in Revelations who identifies the Ark of the Covenant directly with the Woman Clothed with the Sun [Son] who gives birth to a male Child [Jesus] and is pursued by the ancient foe [Satan - Serpent - dragon] … that is actually a fairy direct reference to Mary [Cowned as Queen], Mother of the God Man, the New Eve …

And please do not come back with the Ark is in Chapter 11 and the Woman in Capter 12 … in the original, there are no chapters and verses … it is a continual thought … as the Ark had been “lost” for centuries seeing it and the description of it that follows is of high significance to the audience to which John wrote …