Apostolic Succession - A Reasoned Defense

[Randy_Carson]

Randy.
The United Methodist position is the one I quoted about the Real Presence. You quote the articles of Religion which is not the official position of the United Methodist church, which I would think you would know since this is your background.

This is the United Methodist position:

I took those quotes directly from “This Holy Mystery” at the website I provided.

From the Introduction to “This Holy Mystery”:“This Holy Mystery: A United Methodist Understanding of Holy Communion” was overwhelmingly approved by the 2004 General Conference. For the first time in our history, the denominaton has an official, comprehensive statement of the practice adn theology of the Lord’s Supper."

The General Conference also called for the implementation and wide use of this interpretive document. this commentary and study guide represents a part of the effort to respond to that directive and to encourage Christian conferencing at all levels of the church, with the aim of a “richer sacramental life” for United Methodists."

Sounds like the document I have is pretty official to me. BTW, it was only $12.00 at the Cokesbury Christian Bookstore. You might want to pick up a copy…I haven’t finished reading it, but it appears to be a very nice work.

If you hold that Jesus is really present without being able to explain it, perhaps the Catholic Church can help you out there. :yup:

Of course, without a valid priesthood, then despite your belief, he is not there. If you hunger for Christ in the Eucharist, then I encourage you to join the Catholic Church as I have.

The banquet table is prepared. Come and feast.

 

[BrianH]

I took those quotes directly from “This Holy Mystery” at the website I provided.

Randy my quote is from the same book. You quote the beginning, I quoted the conclusion

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy my quote is from the same book. You quote the beginning, I quoted the conclusion

 

[Randy_Carson]

I think it is interesting that the Methodists appeal to Justin Martyr concerning the “extension of the table” using this passage:Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. (First Apology, 67)

But they complete overlook this more significant passage:“And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.” (66)
Baptismal regeneration. The real flesh and blood of Jesus.

These are not symbols, and Justin Martyr knew it.

When do Methodists come on board?

 

[BrianH]

BrianH;1939734:

Brian-

I would be delighted to learn that Methodists believe in the Real Presence…I have been exchanging emails with my dad for nearly a year, and it would delight me to no end to know that the Methodist Church holds a doctrine that is more than symbolic. However, as you can gather, this is not what was taught in my house when I was growing up.

I think my dad will be stunned to learn that he’s supposed to believe in the real presence of Christ in communion. He thinks it is purely symbolic.

Tell me, what does “real presence” mean to you?

I have a hard time defining what is so engrained as a “mystery” but it was a respectful question.
We say in our liturgy:

Pour out your Holy Spirit on us gathered here,
and on these gifts of bread and wine.
Make them be for us the body and blood of Christ,

So I can say he is present, really present in the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice but as far as specifically…
I don’t know
Forgive me, I tried

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy Carson;1939817:

I have a hard time defining what is so engrained as a “mystery” but it was a respectful question.
We say in our liturgy:

So I can say he is present, really present in the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice but as far as specifically…
I don’t know
Forgive me, I tried

No problem. However, I would like to point out: I could have written the exact same sentence as a Catholic!

If Methodists can accept the real presence, then there may be hope for their eventual re-unification with the Catholic Church!