Apostolic Succession and Picking Your Priest

[Truthstalker]

On numerous threads on this forum, when someone tells of something wrong in their parish, often they get the advice to “find another parish.” My reaction to this is that it is a very Protestant thing to do - the whole vote with your feet bit; if you don’t like the parish or the priest, go find another one. I realize there are priests and then there are priests, likewise bishops. Some are faithful to the teachings of the Church, others would disembowel it without blinking an eye. It has been this way since Judas stole money from the treasury, or before.

There is an apostolic succession that occurs when one unbelieving bishop lays hands on another, and so on through the generations. There is another when the teachings of the apostles are effectively transmitted, as Paul said to Timothy, to others who would effectively transmit them (2 Tim 2:2). It is best when they coincide. However many bishops became Arian in ancient days, as many have become liberal today, and have strayed away from the apostolic faith. As I understand it the Catholic Church relies exclusively on the laying on of hands, regardless of whether the one laying hands on or receiving believes, as it is a sacrament not dependent on the worth of the recipient. In contrast Protestants typically insist on a doctrinal transmission to the exclusion of any consideration of lineage.

So if, in a Catholic church, a priest has had hands laid on him by a bishop rightfully ordained, why would you go to another church? Are you effectively saying that when you walk out of a Catholic parish you are saying that it is no longer Catholic, and that you are free to pick and choose which church you want to go to? Are you saying that despite the validity of the first kind of apostolic succession, in reality you choose the second?

 

[Della]

So if, in a Catholic church, a priest has had hands laid on him by a bishop rightfully ordained, why would you go to another church? Are you effectively saying that when you walk out of a Catholic parish you are saying that it is no longer Catholic, and that you are free to pick and choose which church you want to go to? Are you saying that despite the validity of the first kind of apostolic succession, in reality you choose the second?

In a word, no. Every priest is a priest forever. Even lacizied priests may hear confessions and give absolution if necessary. So, it has nothing to do with apostolic succession.

People choose one parish over another for many reasons, some because the priests are preaching unorthodox things, but most often for other reasons, such as the way the Mass is conducted and the warmth or coldness of the people.

Unlike Protestantism, we Catholics don’t break with the Church and seek out other churches that fit what we want to believe. Our Church always has and always will teach what the Apostles taught. We may seek out a different parish, but all parishes are one in the Church (and usually we still join one in the same archdiocese).

We don’t start up or join something completely different just because we don’t like a parish or a priest or anyone else. And many of us just suck it up when our parish isn’t as orthodox as it should be, working towards bringing it around by our prayers and support.

 

[Maranatha]

I believe the difference between a Catholics choosing a parish and a Protestant choosing a church is the difference between dogma and discipline.

There are matters of taste that a Catholic can freely exercise. There are rules that the magisterium can change. These are disciplines that are changeable.

What unites Catholics the world over are the dogmas that we hold together. These dogmas are the unchanging teachings of Christ as in trusted to his Apostles. These are unchanging. Even the Magisterium does not have the authority to change them.

When a Protestant chooses a church they are choosing both disciplines and dogmas.

 

[jmcrae]

In my experience, people most often change parishes because of style issues. Some people prefer something a little more charismatic, some prefer the Baroque style, some like the 1960s/70s era folk style, some like the Tridentine Latin Mass, and so on.

In a large enough Diocese, you can find all of these, somewhere. There is no prohibition against attending any parish church in your Diocese. Your records would normally be kept at your home parish (the one closest to where you live) but you don’t have to be a regular attender, there - some people have never even been inside their home parish, before.

 

[m134e5]

Among Catholics, I notice a lack of the sense of being called to a specific place. Sometimes God calls us to places that aren’t as reverent or as orthodox- to be a witness to those who are there- who may be feeling the same way, but don’t know of anybody else who does. That being said, you have to consider what is best in your situation. It is very difficult to teach your kids the truths of the Faith, and to respect priests- but only to have the priest they learned to respect teach heresy. God put you in a specific parish for a reason- sometimes He calls you to leave that parish, but let God tell you where to go- not the other way around.

 

[scylla]

Since the Church is the same everywhere you can go anywhere and still be part of the One Church.

I am in a very liberal diocese and a fairly liberal parish. I will not leave as this is still a Catholic Church, even though there are some misrepresenting the faith there. I could easily go to the next town where there is a good holy priest, yet in my parish which doesn’t even have a priest I stay. The Catholic thing to do is stay and fight, charitably but fight.

I have the Catholic faith on my side, while the progressives have opinion and emotion. So even though they seek to change the Church my making small changes they can be knocked down and corrected.

The reason why many suggest to go to another parish is to guard peoples faith. It is easy to lose belief if you are constantly taught that it is all right to believe whatever you want. It is easy to get frustrated when you see so much dissent and outright heresy. To guard peoples faith many will suggest to move to other parishes.

It is very enriching to your faith to go to a proper Mass and see other faithful Catholics. It gives you confidence and assurance that there are others that care about truth, and that faithful Catholics can still get together without problems.

It would be much easier for all of us if we just had good, holy, faithful Priests with reverent Parishes who preached the Catholic faith and people were converting by the droves as Catholicism would be properly represented. But this isn’t the case, so people suggest that others look for faithful parishes to bolster others’ faith.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[rwoehmke]

The OP based the question on the apostolic succession by the laying on of hands. Since every Catholic priest is ordained by the laying on of hands, a change from one priest to another doesn’t break the succession. It was at one time a fact of canon law that one had to attend the parish within the which he resided. This is no longer the case, that however had nothing to do with apostolic succession.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Truth__,

I sympathize with your views. Often, future converts ask what parish they should “choose”. I always tell them they already belong to a parish. It is the territorial parish of the place where they live.

Abandonning your assigned parish for good is like leaving your family. There should be extremely serious reasons. But is the modern mentality that we should always have a choice. Not very “traditionalist”.Yet it is the latter who advocate this most often.

Verbum