Apostolic Succession and the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church

[starchyp]

Hello
I was wondering if a group of high church anglicans, the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, have apostolic succession, which would make their sacraments valid. These lutherans follow Catholic canon law, and are nearly Catholic, but aren’t yet ready for full communion. Thanks

 

[totustuus2345]

Praised Be Jesus Christ!

If they are not in full communion with the See of Rome, are they schismatic? If they aren’t this either than probably no, they don’t have apostolic succession. The Anglicans DID but not anymore, this changed after they changed ordination rites… and stared to ordain women…

XC
Patrick

 

[Peter_J]

Hello
I was wondering if a group of high church anglicans, the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church, have apostolic succession, which would make their sacraments valid. These lutherans follow Catholic canon law, and are nearly Catholic, but aren’t yet ready for full communion. Thanks

Hi starchyp,

You can find some info about them in this thread.

 

[SIA]

Praised Be Jesus Christ!

If they are not in full communion with the See of Rome, are they schismatic? If they aren’t this either than probably no, they don’t have apostolic succession. The Anglicans DID but not anymore, this changed after they changed ordination rites… and stared to ordain women…

XC
Patrick

Anglicans DO posess Apostolic Succession, it doesn’t have anything to do with ordaining women.

 

[DeaconVocation]

Anglicans DO possess Apostolic Succession, it doesn’t have anything to do with ordaining women.

Are you sure? I was under the impression that in 1896 Pope Leo XIII declared all Anglican Orders "absolutely null and utterly void in the apostolic letter “Apostolicae Curae”.

See #60:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/angl-comm-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20070914_growing-together_en.html

So at that point once the last validly ordained bishop died, apostolic succession would have ended?

 

[totustuus2345]

Are you sure? I was under the impression that in 1896 Pope Leo XIII declared all Anglican Orders "absolutely null and utterly void in the apostolic letter “Apostolicae Curae”.

See #60:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/angl-comm-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20070914_growing-together_en.html

So at that point once the last validly ordained bishop died, apostolic succession would have ended?

Te Deum Laudamus,

This is true, the only Church(es) that possess apostolic succession are

The Roman Catholic Church (this includes all particular churches in full communion)

The Eastern Orthodox Churches (Illicit, but valid)

e.g. a priest can concelebrate in these Churches, but not in the Anglican (episcopal) communion, or in any other Protestant communion.

See:

1. In his Apostolic Letter on Anglican Orders, Apostolicae Curae (1896), Pope Leo XIII ruled against the validity of Anglican Orders.[122] The question of validity remains a fundamental obstacle to the recognition of Anglican ministries by the Catholic Church. In the light of the agreements on the Eucharist and ministry set out both in the ARCIC statements and in the official responses of both Communions, there is evidence that we have a common intention in ordination and in the celebration of the Eucharist. This awareness would have to be part of any fresh evaluation of Anglican Orders.
2. The twentieth century saw much discussion across the whole Christian family on the question of the ordination of women. The Roman Catholic Church points to the unbroken tradition of the Church in not ordaining women. Indeed, Pope John Paul II expressed the conviction that “the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women”.[123] After careful reflection and debate, a growing number of Anglican Churches have proceeded to ordain women to the presbyterate and some also to the episcopate.[124] They have done so, despite sometimes strong differences of belief within those provinces, in the conviction that there are no theological objections to such a development, and that they are not departing from the traditional understanding of apostolic ministry nor the nature of ministry as set forth in the ARCIC statements

An Agreed Statement
by the
International
Anglican – Roman Catholic
Commission for Unity and Mission

XC
Patrick

 

[Peter_J]

Are you sure? I was under the impression that in 1896 Pope Leo XIII declared all Anglican Orders "absolutely null and utterly void in the apostolic letter “Apostolicae Curae”.

See #60:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/angl-comm-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20070914_growing-together_en.html

So at that point once the last validly ordained bishop died, apostolic succession would have ended?

Don’t worry. SIA was just expressing an Anglican view on the matter.

P.S. I should say “on a slightly different matter than the topic of this thread” (which is the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church).

 

[totustuus2345]

Laudamus Te,

I would also like to point out, according to the Catholic Church’s teaching, something is not considered a “Church”, unless it has valid apostolic succession, and believes in the transubstantiation of the Eucharist, all ‘churches’ that do not fit these 2 catagories, are not considered ‘churches’ per se, but ‘communions’.
I think that to have all seven sacraments is a requirement too, not sure though.

XC
Patrick