Apostolic Succession

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My church (Ruthenian Catholic) commemorates St. Matthias as an apostle. That’s good enough for me.
 
cottice said:
There you go Randy, Matthias wasn’t called by or sent by the Risen One as Benedict says is the beginning of becomimg an apostle.
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You are mistaken. As one of the seventy Luke 10:1 the Lord appointed and sent them out, two by two even before he was crucified. Matthias is way ahead of Paul in serving the Lord.
 
ericc said:
You are mistaken. As one of the seventy Luke 10:1 the Lord appointed and sent them out, two by two even before he was crucified. Matthias is way ahead of Paul in serving the Lord.
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Exactly, and well said.
Our friend wouldn’t acknowledge that point that Matthias was already in ministry when “Saul” was still persecuting the Church, before he even becomes Paul. #56
 
ericc said:
You are mistaken. As one of the seventy Luke 10:1 the Lord appointed and sent them out, two by two even before he was crucified. Matthias is way ahead of Paul in serving the Lord.
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steve_b said:
Exactly, and well said.
Our friend wouldn’t acknowledge that point that Matthias was already in ministry when “Saul” was still persecuting the Church, before he even becomes Paul. #56
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FWIW, I told him the same thing in post 14 of the “First Bishop” thread. His reply?
The Eastern church calls these the “minor apostles”. Basically Jesus sent them on a training mission with limited authority.
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Well, cottice, according the Pope Benedict, Matthias got called up from the minors to the Big League.

Suwiiiiiiing, batta, batta, batta

🍿
 
cottice said:
Oh Eric, if only that verse says Peter with the other eleven Apostles then I would believe you but unfortunately for you it doesn’t. Sorry, but the word apostle is not in that verse. You added it. You’re beating a dead horse.
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Aha! So finally you agree that Matthias is one of the Twelve finally. This is a breakthrough! But Twelve of what?

ALL the four Gospel writers have used the words Twelve to mean the 12 apostles many many times. I have responded to you in another post previously about this, and you kept quiet. Let me reproduce that for you in case you missed or forgotten about it although that was like 2 days ago only.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12580668&postcount=35
Originally Posted by cottice View Post
Twelve what? I do not see the word ‘Apostles’ there. Another example of the Holy Spirit not calling Matthias an Apostle when given the opportunity to do so.
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You seem to be clutching at straws. When the Gospel writers says the Twelve, it is understood to mean the Twelve Apostles.
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Mt 10:5
Mt 26:14
Mt 26:47
Mk 4:10
Mk 6:7
Mk 9:35
Mk 10:32
Mk 11:11
Mk 14:10
Mk 14:17
Mk 14:20
Mk 14:43
Lk 8:1
Lk 9:1
Lk 22:3
Lk 22:47
Jn 6:67
Jn 6:70
Jn 20:24
Acts 6:2
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It is futile to argue your case really. Anyway, my previous post on Acts 1:24-25 is extremely clear that Matthias was chosen to replace the ministry and apostleship vacated by Judas. I take your silence on that point as acceptance.
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Now please answer this question. When the Gospel writers say the Twelve, who do you think they meant? You can check with any reputable Biblical scholar if you want an expert advice so that you know for sure. You can ask Greek language specialists too if needed. You are beating a very dead horse Sir.

It is disheartening to see you hopping to another post hawking the same viewpoints rather than seeing the discussion to its conclusion. Instead of responding to my rebuttal, you have chosen to keep quiet and move on somewhere else. You won’t have a satisfactory conclusion. Even if you move to another post where the rebuttals are few or not well attended, any victory won there is hollow.

But I will try to be patient and see this topic to and end. Here or elsewhere.

And by the way, don’t forget apostle Barnabas spoken in Acts 14:14. Where are you going to slot his name?
 
cottice said:
No, scripture is the one putting the quantification on 12. You will find it in Rev 21:14. Twelve foundations of the Church (the New Jerusalem) on which are written the names of the twelve Apostles. HOW MANY APOSTLES? Twelve, not thirteen, not fourteen not eleven, just twelve apostles.
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You are making an assumption that the number of foundations must be equal to the number of apostles. But there is nothing to suggest that it must be so. There could be more apostles than foundations. It just is God’s decision to allocate what to which apostle. Not yours.
 
ericc said:
You are making an assumption that the number of foundations must be equal to the number of apostles. But there is nothing to suggest that it must be so. There could be more apostles than foundations. It just is God’s decision to allocate what to which apostle. Not yours.
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:yup:
 
cottice said:
This is getting laughable. It really is. Look, I don’t care if Matthias is, “numbered with the eleven Apostles”, “counted with the eleven Apostles”, “enrolled with the eleven Apostles” or “associated with the eleven Apostles”. **THERE ARE STILL ELEVEN APOSTLES **Eleven before Matthias and eleven after Matthias.
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I do this only for those who might read this thread.

They were voting to replace Judas. Voting for Matthias really and truly made it 12 again. As in 11 + 1 = 12 . I have no clue where you learned math
 
steve_b said:
I do this only for those who might read this thread.

They were voting to replace Judas. Voting for Matthias really and truly made it 12 again. As in 11 + 1 = 12 . I have no clue where you learned math
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cottice is no longer among us.
 
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