Apparitions, an annoyance

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Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain? I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that? I’m sorry but it just ticks me off. And how can I validate these things myself? Where can I read Peters claims? Is that just locked up hidden in the Vatican somewhere…sorry guys, but I just can’t handle this anymore. And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…

I need some guidance on how to approach these things. Please, I need help.
 
May I say, if these saints’ writings upset you so much, why read them?

You have the gospels.
The gospels are the basis of faith and the Lord’s teachings.
Also read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
These are basic and essential teachings of the Church
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

You’re not obliged to read the lives of the saints.
Nor are you obliged to accept private revelations.
You’re a person who needs the essentials, I would think from your post.
My father is the most genuinely saintly man I’ve ever known, but he had little patience with the saints.
Some people need their inspiration, but it would appear that Christ, the Eucharist, the gospels, are what your soul and nature may need to flourish. Christ is the cornerstone and the foundation of our Catholic faith.
 
By the way, I can answer your question regarding the depiction of Jesus as the Divine Mercy.
Sister Faustina wasn’t an artist. She tried to describe Jesus’ appearance to others, and several different attempts to paint His image were made over a period of time. Sister Faustina was distressed, and said, “Why can’t they paint You as You really are?”
There’s a great difference between an artist’s impression of Someone they hadn’t themselves seen, and even if they had, it can be difficult to paint a good likeness, they could only use the description, and paint as the simply thought that might translate.

May the Holy Spirit guide you as you seek the way He wishes to deepen your faith and may He lead you during this earthly life, to the spiritual fullness He desires for you.
 
FormerXCatholic said:
Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain? I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that? I’m sorry but it just ticks me off. And how can I validate these things myself? Where can I read Peters claims? Is that just locked up hidden in the Vatican somewhere…sorry guys, but I just can’t handle this anymore. And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…

I need some guidance on how to approach these things. Please, I need help.
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If they upset you, just ignore them. Stop reading about them. The Church doesn’t say we have to believe in them; the furthest the Church will go is to say that there’s nothing in them contrary to the Magesterium, which is hardly “psychological baggage.”

One can be a perfectly good Catholic and not believe in a single one of these. So my advice would be, just ignore them.
 
The short answer is this.

The Church does not require the faithful to accept private revelation - that includes the type of apparition that you speak of in your post.

The Church DOES investigate such things and, assuming it all checks out, will issue a statement that something is “worthy of belief” (I think that’s the terminology).

However we are not required to do anything with them.

So my advice is this…If they bug you then they are interfering with your spiritual growth - just ignore them.

Peace
James
 
If they do not benefit your faith, simply ignore them. Catholics are not bound to accept any private revelation, even those found “worthy of belief,” such as Lourdes or Fatima.

You are free to reject all apparitions and still be Catholic.
 
FormerXCatholic said:
Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain? I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that? I’m sorry but it just ticks me off. And how can I validate these things myself? Where can I read Peters claims? Is that just locked up hidden in the Vatican somewhere…sorry guys, but I just can’t handle this anymore. And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…

I need some guidance on how to approach these things. Please, I need help.
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then what do you think the transfiguration is? I am not sure if there is going to be any explanation that will satisfy you because you have made a number of blanket assumptions in your rant. The apparitions that have been approved by the Church have been throughly investigated. Private revelations that a number of saints may have had as part of their lives and likewise have been investigated as part of the sainthood process. As a Catholic, you are not required to believe in private revelations or apparitions of different saints but are required to believe in the dogma and doctrine of the Catholic Church which includes the Bible and the Bible does record in OT and NT different visions, dreams and apparitions that different men and women have had. Posting an angry rant that claims the Vatican has secret locked up and hidden stories does sound like someone that is trying to understand.
I again not sure what your issue is with St. Faustina but many many people have benefited from the chaplet of divine mercy which focuses on Christ’s love and mercy to all. If you do not want to participate in this, that is your free will choice.
 
Apparitions (in the post Apostolic Age) are considered “private revelation” and are not part of the deposit of faith. All public revelation (which is part of the deposit of faith) ceased with the death of last Apostle. No private apparition or revelation is required to be believed by the faithful. The Church has approved some private revelation (to include those of Saint Faustina), which means that there is nothing revealed that contradicts the faith and it is worthy of belief. You are free to believe or not believe in those apparitions. However I would recommend prudence when choosing to Not believe in an approved apparition; the Church does not grant approval lightly and conducts lengthy investigations prior to approving one.
Many apparitions are neither approved or disapproved, and may simply be pious legends; real or not they generally are only truly significant to the one who received them.
Saint Faustina’s encounters as related in her diary is a truly moving piece. Keep in mind the painting of the Divine Mercy was done by other artists based on her description, so obviously there is artistic license to them. However I would caution you on what you describe as feminine in the painting. There have been many customs over the years and in many cultures where what is considered masculine looks rather femine based on another cultures perspective. The true meaning of the painting is that Our Lord comes to us with his mercy (made present by water and blood) we need only to accept His mercy.
 
So, I gather you have no belief in any miracles.
St. Peter died upside down on a cross. St. Peter N likely asked for a sign. He had a vision. What’s so hard? People of past ages believed that signs are given to us by the Lord and Saints. Check out the entire OT. We have lost this in our culture. Everyone wants proof, but I guess if you could ask visionaries, they would be able to persuade you of what they saw, felt, heard, etc.
Just because you think it’s weird doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
The Church does not REQUIRE anyone to ascribe to apparitions. You can not worry about it and still be Catholic.
However, many holy and sainted people have had visions, and seen apparitions. Just because you and I have not does not make it untrue.
How do feel about the Eucharist? That is the miracle that happens every day at every Mass in every corner of the earth.
It’s miraculous, and it’s a promise of Jesus. Focus on that reality and worry less about unpacking miracles, unless you get a good book about them to read. There are some great ones out there.
“As if Jesus really looked that feminine”…I’m sorry. But that is such an outrageous statement. Take it up with the artist. Many people “see” Jesus differently. Sister’s description had more to do with the rays of light…if you read her account. Look at the myriad styles of artistic representation of Jesus, Mary, and Saints.

The guidance is this:
This is your faith. The parts that are optional are just that.
The parts that are essential to your salvation are essential to your salvation.
But believing in the seemingly impossible has its merits, spiritually.
The Church gives us these accounts because it gives us HOPE.
Pretty essential in this world.

Matthew 19:26New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.”

Praying that you find peace.
Who knows? Maybe you’ll get a sign.
 
These are private revelations. You are not required to believe in them. You don’t even have to believe in Fatima if you choose not to. While uncommon to not believe say, Fatima or the Divine Mercy message, it does not effect your standing as a Catholic.
 
Honestly, if they annoy you, then pay them no mind.

Holy Mother Church declares some apparitions Worthy of belief, not Have to believe.
 
FormerXCatholic said:
Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain? I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that? I’m sorry but it just ticks me off. And how can I validate these things myself? Where can I read Peters claims? Is that just locked up hidden in the Vatican somewhere…sorry guys, but I just can’t handle this anymore. And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…

I need some guidance on how to approach these things. Please, I need help.
Click to expand...
Why are you concerned about this, if you are a XCatholic .🤷
 
FormerXCatholic said:
Can anyone give me a rock solid answer to what it means when someone “appears” to a saint? For instance, what does it mean when St Peter “appears” to Peter of Nolasco upside down on a cross? Does the church really expect me believe that St. Peter appeared upside down on a cross just to tell Peter of Nolasco to stay in Spain?
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The Church does not expect you to believe or not believe. Private revelations are just that - private, in that they are meant from God for the person receiving them.
FormerXCatholic said:
I’m just so sick of reading about stupid apparitions that only dilute my faith and make me question the churches motives. What kind of Church saddles its lay with psychological baggage like that? I’m sorry but it just ticks me off. And how can I validate these things myself? Where can I read Peters claims
Click to expand...
You don’t need to validate anything, the Church has done that for you. For many private revelations, the Church has deemed them to be “genuine”, e.g. from God. Although you are not required to believe in these revelations, you may do so if it is an assist to your spiritual life.
FormerXCatholic said:
And St Faustina…don’t even get me going on that. As if Jesus really looked that feminine…
Click to expand...
The Divine Mercy is a perfect example. This is a private revelation meaning that I, as a Catholic, do not have to believe it ever happened. The Church though has said it is genuine, that is, the Church has determined it did happen and that there is spiritual value for me. I won’t do to hell if I don’t pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet. It may help to get me to Heaven.

You don’t seem to have a complete understanding of revelations. You can read more here which may help: newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm
 
I’ll add…holy pictures, medals, representations, stories, testimonies, and legends give us insight to truths of our faith.
I think maybe if you read the recent book of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, you will maybe begin to understand what it is have some doubts and struggles but still grasp the truth of our faith, and still do the work of the Lord…despite frustration, confusion, and a need for validation that doesn’t seem to be readily at hand.
She truly is a Saint for our times. God gave her to us as a great sign of His mercy, the works that we need to do fro Him, and TRUST.
Check it out. It’s a wonderful book.
Peace.
 
First of all, the Church does not require you to believe private apparitions. Those the Church recognizes should be given consideration as they have been investigated by the Church and found not to be outright hoaxes (a simplified explanation).

Where can you find evidence to make you own judgement? You will have to put in time in libraries and study lots of writings as most of the apparitions happened to people who are no longer living. Google may get you started on researching a particular apparition, but you really need to go to a good religious library.
 
As far as I know, as a Catholic, you do not have to believe in any apparition of any Saint. 🤷
 
St. Joan of Arc saw St. Margaret and St. Catherine. She testifies this in her own words. I suggest you begin by educating yourself on St. Joan of Arc. You can read some excellent historical accounts, such as Joan of Arc by Herself and Her Witnesses by renowned historian Régine Pernoud.

The fact of the matter is, her life story is told twice in court of law, once by herself, and once by over one hundred witnesses to her life and death. The actual trial transcripts still exist. I am quite convinced, as a skeptic, that there is no logical explanation to discredit St. Joan of Arc’s story.

And I do mean, skeptic. I sometimes amused myself by tearing apart articles from respected journalism sources, by digging up primary references, scientific experiments, non-translated copies, etc… just to see how poorly done the journalism was.

And me, I see absolutely no ground upon which a person can stand and claim Joan of Arc was a fake. Begin by reading her. But you must find good historians who use actual information and actual data, and not the spinsters who make up all sorts of tall tales, ignoring information, etc… which is extremely common with a subject such as St. Joan of Arc. This is why I specifically recommend Pernoud, although there are other choices.

Trust me, all the time I wonder: “is there really any backing to this? What’s the evidence? It could be explained five different ways!” Not here, though. That builds a strong foundation.
 
The “apparition” of the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima Portugal was witnessed by more than 50,000 people who were mostly skeptical non-believers, yet no one is required to believe it ever happened. As you grow spiritually you may become open to the possibilities.

Don’t let your heart be troubled.
 
I am so glad the Church has said we don’t have to believe private apparitions. I wish there were also directives on Catholic legends, mostly saints who never existed. Made-up stories passed off as truth do water down the faith.

Former, I don’t have any guidance for you as I’m looking for some myself. Here’s hoping someone (or several) will be able to come up with some help for us!
 
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