Apparitions of Mary

[Eschato]

A lot of apparition talk this week.

I’ve found three to be quite inspiring, Lourdes, Fatima and Akita. Beyond that none have really gained my interest. Or moved me to change for the better.

I’ve never really looked into Akita, but I find the history of Our Lady of Guadalupe to be of particular interest. In that particular event, the faith of the western hemisphere was changed forever.

 

[Eschato]

A couple good links with lists of apparitions, letters from local Bishops, approvals, et cetera:

apparitions.org/

campus.udayton.edu/mary//resources/aprtable.html

That last site has a list of al reported apparitions in the last century. According to it, the last approved apparition occurred 25 years ago in Venezuela. There were ten approved before that one from Fatima in '17 to Rwanda in '81. Though there were many, many more reported in the past twenty five years, approved apparitions have been fairly dry for the past quarter century.

 

[CathFaith1]

I’ve never really looked into Akita, but I find the history of Our Lady of Guadalupe to be of particular interest. In that particular event, the faith of the western hemisphere was changed forever.

The investigation of some inexplicible events of Akita (and symbolisms) I found facinating. It gained my interest when Cardinal Ratzinger (in 1988) also deemed them worthy of belief. I prefer mutiple sources involved. It gives me more confidence of due diligence since we do have to trust the word of people at some point.

The final translated message that Sr Agnes Sasagawa gave the Bishop (gave on the 13th which reminded me of fatima) is the only one that she claimed was to be shared w/ her superior. It’s has a serious tone for sure.

Though, as the Church has explained w/ private revelation; the individual possible given any revelations may introduce their own concepts and words from their own imagination. And if anything good can come from them it’s usually to remind people live their faith more faithfully.

 

[RevDrNorth]

HI

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
Would you kindly quote from **Martin Luther **,Pentecostals, Pat Robertson and others who would have seen Marian Apparitions or Jesus Apparitions?

Thanks

You can Google. This quote is taken from a Lutheran publication (though the site may or may not be) and certainly there are many quotes about Luther and Devils. I think he wrestled with him at one point.

The devil has often raised a racket in the house and has tried to scare me, but I appealed to my calling and said, “I know that God has placed me into this house to be lord here. Now if you have a call that is stronger than mine and are lord here, then stay where you are. But I well know that you are not lord here and that you belong in a different place - down in hell.” And so I fell asleep again and let him be angry, for I well knew that he could do nothing to me.

issuesetc.org/resource/journals/luther.htm

Kenneth Hagin

As I thoroughly demonstrate in my book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House, 1993), Kenneth Hagin takes Kenyon’s theology from bad to worse. Not only does he boast of alleged visits to heaven and hell, he recounts numerous out-of-body experiences (OBEs) on the earth as well.

equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2625897/k.B7DF/JAW7551.htm

Oral Roberts had a vision of the 900 foot Jesus. I think he also claimed at one the time that the devil was straggling him while he prayed and his wife came in and dispatched the devil.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts

Many others. I will not bother to look up Pat Robertson for you as you can Google too. He turned back a hurricane. And most nights on the 700 Club the hosts get a “Word of Knowledge” about viewers issues ranging from hernia’s to various other ailments (claiming healing for them).

Yet they laugh about the cautious Catholic Church and well attested visions of Mary.

 

[Kristine1957]

Kristine, the Blessed Mother told one of the visionaries, Mirjana, that in her lifetime, these things will happen. (She must be around 40-44 now.)
I can’t say myself that this is absolutely true, I just listen to the visionaries themselves when I was there in Medjugorgie.

Thank you for the information. I think most of us should just listen and have faith that one day God will return. If we are living a good Christian life and keep studying and living the way God wants us to we have nothing to be concerned about. I was just curious and wondered if these things were real…
God bless

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am so surprised on this thread the skepticism and doubt of Our Lady appearing in Fatima. the constant words here of saying we are not bound to believe it really sickens me.
“The Most holy Virgin is very sad b/c no one has paid any attention to Her Message, neither the good nor the bad. The good continue on their way but without giving any importance to Her Message. The bad, not seeing the punishment of God actually falling upon them, continue their life of sin without ever caring about the message.
But believe me, God will chastise the world and this will be in a terrible manner. The punishment from heaven is imminent.
God always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other remedies”.------Sister Lucy as told to Father Fuentes, December 26, 1957.

A vision is no part of the Deposit of the Faith.​

There is no obligation whatever to believe visionaries - they may have a duty to believe what they assert, for if they don’t they are being insincere. No one else has - still less do they have any duty to accept alleged conversations with such things as both real & wholly reliable; especially as we are at many removes from the supposed events, whether of 1917 or of 1957. Besides, it is a notorious fact that conversations of that kind have often been “improved” or otherwise altered.

And it is illogical to quote a vision of the BVM as telling us “the Most Holy Virgin is very sad” when its authenticity binds us not in the least - to quote as authoritative something that may be a delusion is the sort of illogicality one expects of the sillier advocates of certain kinds of “Bible Only”-ism.

The real Most Holy Virgin would be glad that Catholics are not mistalking giddy-headed superstition for piety. The Bible warns us against such giddiness - 1 John 5.21 She would certainly not glorify Herself & belittle her Divine Son. Fatima is a lie, through & through.

As for

• “The punishment from heaven is imminent.”

• that’s a good one; if it’s a joke, it’s in very doubtful taste. Liars, charlatans, impostors & other frauds are full to bursting of false prophecies of doom: the only good thing about their lies is the absurd spectacle of their threshing & flailing in their miserable attempts to retrieve their good names.

It’s been “imminent” for over 50 years, it hasn’t happened, & it never will. Any attempts to dress up social problems as the fulfilment of such tosh are cheap trickery designed to fool the gullible.

Fatima is unpleasantly similar to the “visions” that helped to launch Mormonism These “visions” always appear to the uneducated & uninstructed - probably because they are easier to deceive. Lying visions to shepherds have caused trouble before - this has not led to bloodshed as some have, but that is no excuse for it. As for these “secrets” - that sounds more like childish secretiveness than anything Divine. The very idea of such things borders on heresy.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Fatima is unpleasantly similar to the “visions” that helped to launch Mormonism These “visions” always appear to the uneducated & uninstructed - probably because they are easier to deceive. Lying visions to shepherds have caused trouble before - this has not led to bloodshed as some have, but that is no excuse for it. As for these “secrets” - that sounds more like childish secretiveness than anything Divine. The very idea of such things borders on heresy.

Wow! Fatima similiar to Mormonism. The implications are astounding. I assume that Pope John Paul II (quite well educated) was deceived when he credited Our Lady of Fatima with saving his life. Also deceived are a great many other Catholic clergy and faithful.

“Lying visions to shepherds have caused trouble before”. I assume you mean like in the Gospel. Yes, that vision certainly did cause trouble for some. To others it was the herald of great things.

I do think we need caution but then the Church seems to exercise that. This is why Bayside has been disregarded and the appearances in Yugoslavia are under a great deal of scrutiny (certainly issues in those visions and advocates battling the Church causes questions).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Wow! Fatima similiar to Mormonism. The implications are astounding. I assume that Pope John Paul II (quite well educated) was deceived when he credited Our Lady of Fatima with saving his life. Also deceived are a great many other Catholic clergy and faithful.

The Mother of God is not “Our Lady of Fatima” as though there were separate Maries for each dedication. Our Lady of Pompeii & Our Lady of Walsingham are two dedications, but there is only the one Mother of God. And she is not affected by being a few thousand dedications short - she is the same Mother of God, whatever is thought of this or that particular shrine, title, or whatnot.​

So if the Fatima visions are spurious - which we have the fullest liberty to believe: even if Popes believe them genuine BTW - that does not affect the Mother of God in the slightest So there are no such implications. Pius XII is said to have seen the sun dance - but no one is obliged to believe this. Faith is in Christ the Sun of Righteousness, not in tales of dancing suns. BTW - the credibility of visions is not settled by extraneous considerations such as their acceptance by people deemed worthy of respect.

“Lying visions to shepherds have caused trouble before”. I assume you mean like in the Gospel. Yes, that vision certainly did cause trouble for some. To others it was the herald of great things.

No, I was thinking of the vision of the Piper [not shepherd - sorry ] of Niklashausen, which led to an uprising, which was very bloodily suppressed:​

• zum.de/whkmla/military/15cen/niklashausen1476.html
  I think my point is unaffected: it is suspicious that so many alleged apparitions are to the uneducated.

I do think we need caution but then the Church seems to exercise that. This is why Bayside has been disregarded and the appearances in Yugoslavia are under a great deal of scrutiny (certainly issues in those visions and advocates battling the Church causes questions).

Thank goodness - & all too true.​

 

[Eschato]

it is suspicious that so many alleged apparitions are to the uneducated. ## Thank goodness - & all too true.​

Yeah, except all of the ones that happened to the well educated. I don’t even understand your point on this issue. Are you saying that uneducated people are more likely to have an apparition because they haven’t fallen into America’s modernist decay, or that they are more likely make up a story?

For the record, the “seers” at Garabandal were apparently so uneducated that they supposedly knew of no other apparitions. Namely Lourdes and Fatima. It seems that if your argument is that uneducated people make up stories that it would implode on itself here. Basically, a person (in most cases, a girl younger than 10) would have to have some deposit of information regarding apparitions before they “made one up.”

 

[Eschato]

It’s been “imminent” for over 50 years, it hasn’t happened, & it never will.

So, I can disregard all of the biblical passages about the Son of Man coming to judge the world from a cloud then? Excellent! Are you starting your own Unitarian sect? I wont to join…

 

[kalt]

I want one person to come forward and say they have proof the Blessed Mother is not appearing to Ivan. No one knows this for sure…why bother to comment with negativity when you do not know???

You want people to prove a negative?

 

[garysibio]

Yes, and I think it happens a lot more often than gets reported. But one thing I’m really curious about, why does Mary only appear to Catholics?

As someone has already pointed out, Mary has appeared to non-Catholics. However, how do you think a typical Evangelical or Fundamentalist would react if Mary appeared to them? I think they would assume that Satan was trying to trick them. (I say this based on the ones I know. Your milage may vary.)

Gary

 

[1234]

Cell phones with video capability are soon to become universal around the world.

The next time that Mary or the Sacred Heart or anyone else appears, have them post it on YouTube.

Then we’ll see.

 

[theistgal]

Cell phones with video capability are soon to become universal around the world.

The next time that Mary or the Sacred Heart or anyone else appears, have them post it on YouTube.

Then we’ll see.

That’s assuming it’s an objective apparition which can be filmed. Once again, may I recommend Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s wonderful book, “A Still Small Voice”, for what apparitions, visions and locutions really are?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Cell phones with video capability are soon to become universal around the world.

The next time that Mary or the Sacred Heart or anyone else appears, have them post it on YouTube.

Then we’ll see.

It won’t help.

At Fatima, only the three children saw Mary. She was invisible to everybody else. But everybody saw the miracle of the “dancing sun”. Surely you have no doubt that something phenomemal happened on Oct 13th 1917. Would it matter if it were captured on video? Isn’t the testimony of 70,000 witnesses enough? I hope you’re not suggesting that 70,000 people didn’t see something phenomenal that day.

P.S. Don’t hold your breath waiting for the next spectacular miracle to occur. It really doesn’t happen that often.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by 1234

Cell phones with video capability are soon to become universal around the world.

The next time that Mary or the Sacred Heart or anyone else appears, have them post it on YouTube.

Then we’ll see.

It won’t help.

At Fatima, only the three children saw Mary. She was invisible to everybody else. But everybody saw the miracle of the “dancing sun”. Surely you have no doubt that something phenomemal happened on Oct 13th 1917. Would it matter if it were captured on video? Isn’t the testimony of 70,000 witnesses enough? I hope you’re not suggesting that 70,000 people didn’t see something phenomenal that day.

P.S. Don’t hold your breath waiting for the next spectacular miracle to occur. It really doesn’t happen that often.

Hi

Maybe 1234 is a lucky person, you never know. No harm in making a video or informing him.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Originally Posted by 1234

Hi

Maybe 1234 is a lucky person, you never know. No harm in making a video or informing him.

Thanks

Hi paarsurrey,

You know, alot of Protestants do believe that something phenomenal happened at Fatima on Oct 13th 1917. It’s pretty hard to argue against the evidence. But, they don’t believe it to be divine. In fact, some people will go so far as to say that Our Lady of Fatima is not Mary, but rather just the devil in disguise.

So, a video won’t help. It will just reaffirm their beliefs that it was the devil in disguise.

 

[Eschato]

Cell phones with video capability are soon to become universal around the world.

The next time that Mary or the Sacred Heart or anyone else appears, have them post it on YouTube.

Then we’ll see.

Simple, go to you tube and search marian apparitions. The ones from Medjugorje are quite interesting. They have film from Zeitoun as well. The apparitions in Egypt were broadcast locally in 1968 (I think that was the year) by the local stations. Some of the Medjugorje “signs” are better looked for in Italian. Try “segno a Medjugorje.”

Supposedly, it will be possible to film and photograph the “miracle” that is to be performed, so it only makes sense that the prelude would be on youtube… haha

 

[Eschato]

Hi paarsurrey,

You know, alot of Protestants do believe that something phenomenal happened at Fatima on Oct 13th 1917. It’s pretty hard to argue against the evidence. But, they don’t believe it to be divine. In fact, some people will go so far as to say that Our Lady of Fatima is not Mary, but rather just the devil in disguise.

So, a video won’t help. It will just reaffirm their beliefs that it was the devil in disguise.

Yeah, some Christians have a lot of faith in the devil…

 

[Lee44]

when I was a Roman Catholic I saw Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich, she uttered these word’s “eat this sandwich and I will tell Jesus how wonderful you are” I did not eat the sandwich because I am lactose intollerent, I often wonder how my life would have changed if I had eaten that sandwich.