Apparitions of Mary

[peary]

Many Orthodox Christians have had apparitions of the Theotokos. I am often skeptical of many of the apparitions. It does not seem that the Mary appearing to these people is the same Mary in the New Testament. She commands honor and churches built in her name–that doesn’t seem like the Mary I am familiar with–the Mary who was in total submission to GOD and sought no honor for herself. Just like in the ancient icons, the Blessed Theotokos is shown as directing attention to Christ with her hand. Of course, I may sound like a fundamentalist, but I assure you I am not…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Even at Fatima she requested a chapel be built in her honor, and, at first glance, this seems quite odd, but then chapels and churches, basilicas, cathedrals, etc., what are the purposes of these buildings? To bring Christ to be present to the people in a variety of ways, in particular, the Eucharist. In effect, she is direction attention to Christ, and in a very direct way.

 

[peary]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.

There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.

We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.

Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.

I find it amazing when people write “I used to be Catholic until I heard the ‘true’ Gospel and became a born-again Christian.”

What is THAT supposed to mean?

I am “born again” with every Confession I make; I am “born again” with every Eucharist I receive Who is Christ body, blood, soul, and Divinity totally. I am “born again” everytime I hear the Word of God (that’s Scripture to you “born agains”) at Mass. It’s really unfortunate that you were never able to ‘get’ to that point in your relationship with Christ and had to rely on a feeble way outside of the Church to ‘hear’ what you think is the ‘True’ Gospel. I assure you, the ‘full’ Gospel is what the Church teaches, and the ‘full’ Gospel has always been present to you. You chose neither to hear nor understand, and that is truly unfortunate.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.

There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.

We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.

Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.

Well, I’m at least glad that you can recognise that something phenomenal occured at Fatima on October 13th, 1917. Some Protestants won’t even acknowledge that.

Some Protestants will say that nothing occured that day, and that those 70,000 witnesses are wrong.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.
Oh boy
There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.
Because Mary is our model for how we should live our lives. Never mind she is the mother of his son and the person closest to his heart. The apparitions never preached anything against the word of God.
We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.
And if your wrong, how do you think Jesus feels about you saying his mother was sent by Satan? That’s a ticket to hell, i’m sure. Nevermind that Satan cannot glorify God, yet Mary encouraged praying the rosary (which inculdes the our father and focuses on the mysteries of the life of Christ). Futhermore, prayer to saints can be found in 2 maccabee 15:11-17 and revelation 8:3-4
Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.

No she is not God and we do not worship her. But Satan does not use her. He cannot, she is not the Eve he tricked, she is the new Eve, the one who crushed his head. “I will but enmity between you and the woman. Between your seed and hers. She will crush your head, and you will lie in wait for her heel.” Gen 3:15. She was not only a vessel she was much more. And yes she was perfect. She was the perfect human.

 

[Alexius]

Even at Fatima she requested a chapel be built in her honor, and, at first glance, this seems quite odd, but then chapels and churches, basilicas, cathedrals, etc., what are the purposes of these buildings? To bring Christ to be present to the people in a variety of ways, in particular, the Eucharist. In effect, she is direction attention to Christ, and in a very direct way.

That is a good way of looking at it.

Anyway, I once read a statement by an Orthodox father of the 17th or 18th century (I can’t remember who) who made a very good and to the point comment about miraculous icons and sightings. I can’t remember the exact words (especially since they aren’t in English), but he said something like: Does it really matter if these images and sightings are real or not? If we are strong in our faith, then we will believe with or without them. If these sightings and icons are real, then we may have some confirmation of our faith, but likewise if they are false (and that means “of Satan”) than we likewise have confirmation of our faith, for Satan will work especially hard to distract Christ’s true followers and His Church. I likewise agree…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[elt1956]

Brian -
You have to be very careful with these events. The same thing happened at Palmar de Troya in Spain. Thousands went there and were changed. There were Masses said, the Rosary, litanies, there were healings; confessions, adoration; many were brought back (for awhile) to the Church. Satan couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with what was occuring there. What happened was that the seer proclaimed himself pope and excommunicated all of those who would not accept him. Many pulled away, but thousands still - to this day - maintain that the events were true. Satan did what he wanted to do all along - he created a rupture in the Body of Christ among the faithful and confused everyone.

We do give a lot of credit to Satan when disruption appears in any form. But Satan needs to work through people, so who in the end is responsible for chaos? Peace.

 

[peary]

We do give a lot of credit to Satan when disruption appears in any form. But Satan needs to work through people, so who in the end is responsible for chaos? Peace.

I disagree.

 

[meandean]

Iam just curious, have you ever visited a shrine of our lady, anywhere. Are you aware of the miracles that take place. Question, do you believe a dirty handkerchief is abel to heal the sick?, Pauls dirty handkerchief healed many in the bible. How hard is it to believe God can work miracles through the Mother of his son Jesus if he so choses.

hey look, a ufo!

 

[sapamarogi]

Yes, I’ve thought that!! That’s funny…

That’s because we who are born again do not believe in praying to Mary or saints and Catholics do. Satan appears as an angel of light and just because it may look like Mary doesn’t mean it is. There is a book called: “The Beautiful Side of Evil” by Johanna Michelson who got into some real weird stuff trying to call up spirits and how God brought her out of it into the truth of the Bible. We are not to seek signs. Remember Satan still has power to deceive. If we do not read the Bible for ourselves we shall be deceived. Especially when the message the vision of Mary contradicts the Word of God. Mary was a human being just like you and I and we should not seek her. She was chosen to carry Jesus but she would not want to be worshipped nor would God want us to worship her. The Bible says to test the spirits to see if they are from God, so that means there are spirits or visions that do not necessarily come from God.

 

[sapamarogi]

The thing which bothers me about weeping statues and the like is that I cannot easily imagine why God would want to lay on that kind of party trick.

God doesn’t. It is the work of Satan who can appear as an angel of light. If he gets you to believe it is from God - he can control what you believe.

 

[sapamarogi]

Brian_Reeves:
I do not believe Mary or any of the saints can appear to us. The Bible warns us of looking for signs because Satan can deceive us with them. Angels have appeared in the Bible as sent from God but we must be very careful and test the spirits whether they are from God because there is an adversary who can appear as an angel of light.

 

[elt1956]

I disagree.

In what way Peary? Are we and we alone (ie. each of us) responsible for our actions? Or is it “The Devil MADE me do it”? Clarify please. Peace.

 

[peary]

In what way Peary? Are we and we alone (ie. each of us) responsible for our actions? Or is it “The Devil MADE me do it”? Clarify please. Peace.

I just re-read your previous post. Yes, I agree

 

[Alexius]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.

There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.

We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.

Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.

I do not worship the Blessed Theotokos, nor would I dream of it. Any Catholic who has read their Bible and has at least attempted to learn Catholic doctrine knows the Theotokos and where she belongs. She is not GOD, but rather a creature the same as we. GOD uses all of us to His glorious purpose and the Theotokos was used in the most extraordinary way–to bring forth the Savior of mankind. I honor her as such. Whether or not she appeared matters little to me. That she bore Christ my Savior and Lord does…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I do not believe Mary or any of the saints can appear to us. The Bible warns us of looking for signs because Satan can deceive us with them. Angels have appeared in the Bible as sent from God but we must be very careful and test the spirits whether they are from God because there is an adversary who can appear as an angel of light.

I hope your not suggesting the Satan has the upperhand to intimidate over God.

How do we test the spirits? Consider Abraham when he as asked to sacrifice his son; That sounds like an ungodly request. Why do suppose Abraham was able to recognise God, but we are unable to recognise Mary?

 

[Linda_Marie]

That’s because we who are born again do not believe in praying to Mary or saints and Catholics do. Satan appears as an angel of light and just because it may look like Mary doesn’t mean it is. There is a book called: “The Beautiful Side of Evil” by Johanna Michelson who got into some real weird stuff trying to call up spirits and how God brought her out of it into the truth of the Bible. We are not to seek signs. Remember Satan still has power to deceive. If we do not read the Bible for ourselves we shall be deceived. Especially when the message the vision of Mary contradicts the Word of God. Mary was a human being just like you and I and we should not seek her. She was chosen to carry Jesus but she would not want to be worshipped nor would God want us to worship her. The Bible says to test the spirits to see if they are from God, so that means there are spirits or visions that do not necessarily come from God.

First of all, any Catholic will tell you that calling up spirits is a very dangerous thing to try and you should not do it - PERIOD.

Visionaries do not seek signs or visions. They do not call up spirits. The visions just happen to them. With Fatima, the children were herding their sheep when the Angel of the Lord first appeared to them. They were not seeking signs or visions.

What makes you think that the Church does not ‘test the spirits’? The Church does not approve visions lightly. It takes many years of investigation to determine if it is worthy of belief. Not only the message is investigated but the visionary as well. Every aspect of their lives is scrutinized. Do not think that the Church races to approve these things. Her first reaction is scepticism closely followed by putting difficulties in the way of the visionary or even suppressing it altogether. The Fatima children were actually arrested, taken away from their families and locked up in a jail far from their homes. OK, it was the government who arrested them, but the Church scrutinised the children’s reaction to being so mistreated as a result of their visions.

We don’t talk about the ones that have been disproved, precisely because they have been deemed invalid by the Church and are NOT worthy of belief. There are many of them. Many, many more than have been approved. One of the tell-tales of an invalid vision is that the message contradicts public revelation (ie the Word of God) so we are in agreement here. Rest assured, the Church puts many years of study into determining if the message through a visionary contradicts the Word of God.

I don’t know how many times we have said this, but once more into the breach - CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY. We give her the honour that is due to the Mother of our Saviour, which is great, but we do not worship her. The problem arises from a misunderstanding about the nature of worship. Protestants have rejected the true worship which is found in the Catholic Mass and have reduced worship to singing hymns, listening to a pastor’s sermon and praying. Since they have truncated and redefined praying as to be exclusively to the Deity, they do not understand when we tell them that praying is not worship nor to be used exclusively for communication with God. We Catholics are somewhat anachronistic in that we cling to the old definitions. ‘Pray’ means ‘to ask’, not necessarily ‘to ask God’.

 

[Brian_Reeves]

I am a born again christian who was Catholic but heard the True Gospel and received Jesus Christ as my Savour.

There may be apparitions of Mary but that does not mean it is from God. The Bible says Satan can appear as a angel of light. Why would God send Mary to speak to us when we have God’s Word and if the apparition preaches anything against what the Word of God says, it is NOT of God.

We do not pray to Mary, Paul, Peter or any saints only to the Father in JESUS name. That is what the Word of God says. Having been a Catholic and found the truth in God’s Word, I reject these apparitions as from Satan - he is the deceiver but we like to see apparitions, so Satan will provide them for us. Ours is not to seek signs and visions but to seek the Word of God. If an apparition speaks anything that does not line up with the Word of God - it is not from God.

Satan knows we as people worship Mary and so he uses her. She would be appalled to see us worshiping her as she is just a human being like the rest of us who was used of God - she is not God. She was only a chosen vessel of God. Not perfect.

No ! I believe that Our Lady was perfect, would God have chosen an imperfect vessel to come to earth in. Read the first part of Book One of “The Poem of the Man-God” to see how that was achieved !!!

 

[sapamarogi]

No ! I believe that Our Lady was perfect, would God have chosen an imperfect vessel to come to earth in. Read the first part of Book One of “The Poem of the Man-God” to see how that was achieved !!!

The Bible says there is none perfect - no not one. Mary was born of man from the sin nature in each one from Adam and Eve, so she had a sin nature. Jesus was born of her but did not take sin from her - He was supernaturally born of the Spirit implanted in her.

Catholics say they do not worship her, but they pray to her and other saints. "There is only ONE mediator between God and man and that is JESUS CHRIST. That is what the Bible says. Satan causes us to pray to others so he can manipulate what is said to us. He is a deceiver and liar.

 

[sapamarogi]

First of all, any Catholic will tell you that calling up spirits is a very dangerous thing to try and you should not do it - PERIOD.

Visionaries do not seek signs or visions. They do not call up spirits. The visions just happen to them. With Fatima, the children were herding their sheep when the Angel of the Lord first appeared to them. They were not seeking signs or visions.

I believe the children saw the visions. But because God does not send Mary or any of the saints to come to us, it was not of God. God speaks to us through His Word. Sometimes people see angels but they are sent to help us on earth if we are in need. God does not allow people who have died to communicate with us here on earth after they die. We forget satan has his demons and he is here to deceive us.

What makes you think that the Church does not ‘test the spirits’? The Church does not approve visions lightly. It takes many years of investigation to determine if it is worthy of belief. Not only the message is investigated but the visionary as well. Every aspect of their lives is scrutinized. Do not think that the Church races to approve these things. Her first reaction is scepticism closely followed by putting difficulties in the way of the visionary or even suppressing it altogether. The Fatima children were actually arrested, taken away from their families and locked up in a jail far from their homes. OK, it was the government who arrested them, but the Church scrutinised the children’s reaction to being so mistreated as a result of their visions.

You are always talking about the CHURCH testing the spirits. We as christians are supposed to test the spirits for ourselves through the Word of God - we have the Holy Spirit and he is the helper sent to us to lead us into all truth - plus the Word of God which is infallible.

We don’t talk about the ones that have been disproved, precisely because they have been deemed invalid by the Church and are NOT worthy of belief. There are many of them. Many, many more than have been approved. One of the tell-tales of an invalid vision is that the message contradicts public revelation (ie the Word of God) so we are in agreement here. Rest assured, the Church puts many years of study into determining if the message through a visionary contradicts the Word of God.

I don’t know how many times we have said this, but once more into the breach - CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY. We give her the honour that is due to the Mother of our Saviour, which is great, but we do not worship her. The problem arises from a misunderstanding about the nature of worship. Protestants have rejected the true worship which is found in the Catholic Mass and have reduced worship to singing hymns, listening to a pastor’s sermon and praying. Since they have truncated and redefined praying as to be exclusively to the Deity, they do not understand when we tell them that praying is not worship nor to be used exclusively for communication with God. We Catholics are somewhat anachronistic in that we cling to the old definitions. ‘Pray’ means ‘to ask’, not necessarily ‘to ask God’.

You may not worship Mary, but you do pray to her. Where in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary or the other saints? You have taken the teaching of your church over the Word of God and that is the problem. A church is man made and man in fallible, but the Word of God is not.

 

[KJK80]

You may not worship Mary, but you do pray to her. Where in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary or the other saints? You have taken the teaching of your church over the Word of God and that is the problem. A church is man made and man in fallible, but the Word of God is not.

WITH WITH WITH… WITH Mary, we pray WITH Mary… I agree with you, the Word of God and His church are not fallible! The men within it are, but the church doctrine is not.