Apparitions of Mary

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Hi SongOfShepherds,

Below is a link to Mp3 audio by John Haffert, the founder of the Blue Army. He made 50 pilgrimages to Fatima and authored many books on the subject, one was “Fatima: “Meet the Witnesses”, where he interviewed nearly 50 witnesses to the Fatima Miracle. I find him to be the most useful resource on Akita & Fatima.

001A Fatima.Mp3

God Bless
 
Another book I read, I think I had to read that one from the library or maybe a Chapel of Adoration.

But I’m not sure of the numbers you are throwing around that appears intentional.
Hi SongOfShepherds,

Below is a link to Mp3 audio by John Haffert, the founder of the Blue Army. He made 50 pilgrimages to Fatima and authored many books on the subject, one was “Fatima: “Meet the Witnesses”, where he interviewed nearly 50 witnesses to the Fatima Miracle. I find him to be the most useful resource on Akita & Fatima.

001A Fatima.Mp3

God Bless
 
But I’m not sure of the numbers you are throwing around that appears intentional.
Hi SongOfShepherds,

I read his book, “Fatima: “Meet the Witnesses” several years ago. I believe he actually made the round number of 50 trips. I think the number of witnesses was just slightly less than 50, perhaps 48. And he did a very thorough job interviewing them. He even plotted each of their locations on a map of the cove. One of the most interesting books I’ve read.

God Bless
 
Song of Shepherds,

You are bringing up legitimate issues with when the prophecies were revealed, and it would seem to me that the best answers to these questions would be found in the official Vatican inquiry documents.I have never been successful in locating those, and don’t even know to what extent the information is made public, but it seems very important that we be able to read the inquiries ourselves and understand why the Church has come to its conclusions. The best reason for doing this is to allow lay people to come to a deeper understanding of theological inquiry, so that we can use the same principles in our own lives.

If anyone can point me to anything like that, I’d appreciate it.
 
What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that 70,000 people didn’t witness a miracle that day?
Again I am late here, the New York Times reported it, though it might have been what we might call a blurb, a short article.

Sometimes I wonder, wow, what if it happened now and I imagine CNN reporting on it.

The kids may have said “look at the sun” but that would not cover the whole crowd let alone as has been said here already that the phenomenon was observed 30 miles away.

This is from some newspaper I think called The Century (Siglo, O Seculo) in Portugal; so it was in the news. askacatholic.com/images/page_pictures/Newspaper_fatima.jpg
 
What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that 70,000 people didn’t witness a miracle that day?
Again I am late here, the New York Times reported it, though it might have been what we might call a blurb, a short article.

Sometimes I wonder, wow, what if it happened now and I imagine CNN reporting on it.

The kids may have said “look at the sun” but that would not cover the whole crowd let alone as has been said here already that the phenomenon was observed 20, 30 miles away.

One news report in Portugal is shown here. askacatholic.com/images/page_pictures/Newspaper_fatima.jpg Portugal’s government back then, I think was Anarchist is the proper word, maybe slightly Marxist/Communist: and though it is not suppose to be as bad as in the Hollywood movie about Fatima, it was adversarial to the Church definitely.

It seems that something supernatural happened at Garabandal, but we, rather I don’t know from which side it came. In some ways, I’d opine the events in Bosnia are like that. I’m not fast to judge apparitions.

My faith is based on the Holy Trinity and yes, I’d like to do good works and be in communion with God.

It’s just a fascinating subject. My faith is not based on apparitions but they might strengthen it as a manifestation of God’s presence, like reading St. Faustina’s diary.
 
But one thing I am unsure of at times, is when the seers and that is as children, Lucia and I believe are currently both Blessed Jacinta and Blessed Francisco actually relayed the message, say, that Russia would spread her errors around the world. We can say they said it in 1917, the year of the apparitions if I am not mistaken but it seems a Catholic living back then would not have known the substance of that message until after the Russian revolution. And I think this was told to the public in 1923 or possibly even 1930. I’m using figures to the best of my recollection.

**Jacinta and Francisco Marto are ‘Blessed’. Sister Lucia process toward sainthood has been started. In 1917, Lucia saw, spoke and heard the apparition of Mary; Jacinta only heard and saw; Francisco saw but did not hear.

Lucia was the one who shared the prophecy that Russia would spread its errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecution of the Church. Jacinta also heard it. Lucia said that they didn’t know what the Virgin was talking about, and they thought she was talking about a woman!

It is my understanding that this information was given to her spiritual director prior to the writing of her memoirs. I think the bishop of the diocese also received the information.**

There is also a question about when the “great sign in the sky” happened that warned of the next war, World War II (the actual message goes some;thing like "when you see a great sign in the sky, you will know that another worst war is about to occur). This is purported to have happened in by two sources, early 1938 or early 1939. With that I find no fault, I just figure the writers might get confused too, because it seems this did happen. The sky was colored red by one account or others might say it was like an Aurora Buorealis that was abnormally bigger than usual seen by all/most of Europe. But I believe this “great sign in the sky” was a subsequent message to Sister Lucia (some time after 1917) and then, that was not really given to the public again, until about 1940. Now, I am not all that positive about my research. This is a confusing issue.

The Virgin told the children, “When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that it is the sign that God gives you whereby He will punish the world through war and persecution of the Church.” The mysterious ‘light’ was meant for Lucia, not for the whole world.

I’ve mentioned this before and the other guy said, “you must not understand Fatima”, no, I think I do. And I’m not making anything serious out of this. I just wonder what the exact timeline is. It would seem to involve when the Seers had the apparitions, received the messages and then when the messages were relayed to the world. In the case of Russia, one might wonder if we find out “after the fact” though maybe we would not have known what a threat Russia and Communism was to the world.

**Lucia was directed to write her memoirs of the apparitions by her spiritual director(s) three times. Each time, something more was revealed. However, it is safe to assume that both the bishop of the diocese and the pope knew of all this prior to the events occurring. **
 
It’s interesting because I have the opposite intuitive sense about the length of time the apparitions have been appearing. There is danger in seeking experiences and miracles, which includes seeking messages. They begin to supplant the resources we are given as day to day nourishment by the Church (Eucharist, prayer, scripture), and the constant engagement reminds me very, very, much of new age divination practices that I was lost in before becoming Catholic.
Yes, but the Eucharist, prayer, scripture, and sacraments are, in fact, experiences, miracles, and messages. Medjugorje is something very special that God has allowed the world to experience. Those same apparitions have told the seers that if they should always prefer mass to an apparition.
 
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peary:
Yes, thank you Peary, I’m not sure if your quote came through on this post but thank you for your response.

You addressed all of the issues I wrote of and I can’t dispute anything.

As said, a lot of details here, as I have here with me a book and the chapter is titled “June 1929: The Final Apparition?” for Fatima that is and I believe Sister Lucia’s subsequent vision had something to do with this miraclerosarymission.org/fatima.jpg . I do not believe we touched on this.

You must be correct about the “Great Sign” being meant for I suppose Sister Lucia in particular but I guess the phenomenon was seen by many.

Oh, and I refreshed myelf last night on knowing that Our Lady of Mt. Carmel was seen on the same day as the miracle of the sun along with St. Joseph and I believe the baby Jesus…but maybe just to Lucia, Jacinta and maybe Francisco too.

You followed what I said well, thank you!
 
The Church does not require anyone to accept any private revelations of any kind. She does recommend some (like Lourdes and Fatima) as more worthy of devotion than others. But you are free to reject them if you don’t find them plausible. And even if you accept them, you should be careful not to become an “apparition chaser”.

Fr. Benedict Groeschel of EWTN wrote a great book a few years ago called “A Still Small Voice” - I believe it is still in print - if you can find it, it is a very readable, practical and wise guide to the whole business of apparitions and private revelations.

He believes they occur, but explains why you don’t necessarily have to - and why sometimes you shouldn’t. Very much worth seeking this book out if you can find it.
I agree, “A Still Small Voice” is an excellent book for discerning apparitions and private revelations. Another resource for discerning apparitions and private revelations would be the book, “Graces of Interior Prayer” by Poulan. Both books can be found at Amazon. And here is a link to a teaching found at EWTN “Private Revelations and Discernment of Spirits”: ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryd8.htm ~Therese

PS - I apologize if these additional resources have already been mentioned. The thread is long and I haven’t read each post.
 
I agree, “A Still Small Voice” is an excellent book for discerning apparitions and private revelations. Another resource for discerning apparitions and private revelations would be the book, “Graces of Interior Prayer” by Poulan. Both books can be found at Amazon. And here is a link to a teaching found at EWTN “Private Revelations and Discernment of Spirits”: ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryd8.htm ~Therese

PS - I apologize if these additional resources have already been mentioned. The thread is long and I haven’t read each post.
I forgot to mention another good resource is the book, “The Challenging Counterfeit” by Raphael Gasson.
 
Very early on in this thread, someone asked “Why is it that only Catholics see Mary?”. I understand that there have been apparitions to Orthodox Christians also. I recall that Alexander Solzhentsin, the ant- Communist Russian activist and writer wrote in the ‘Gulag Archipelago’ that an Orthodox monk had a vision of Mary in which she stated (before the Russian Revolution) that “This place ( the place of his monastery on one of the Solovetsky Islands off the North of Russia) would be whitened with bones”. The monastery became one of the first of the Communist Party’s labour camps and many thousands of prisoners died there.
I should add (in the matter of apparitions) that following the reading of a booklet about Fatima when I was a teenager (many years ago), I decided that if similar events were repeated in my own lifetime and I was able to go to the place of apparitions, then I would go. Some years later I heard about Medjugorje studied it carefully and I went. I will not detail the outcome except to say, She left me in NO doubt that She was there and that I needed to make some difficult and radical changes in my life. I did not so then but am now attempting to do so.
 
Hi StevieD,

I made a reply to this topic; “Why is it that only Catholics see Mary?” on page 10 of this thread, number 136:
As Catholics, we only hear about the Marian Apparitions to Catholics. “Sometime during the sixteenth century, Our Lady with her infant son appeared to a Hindu boy carrying milk to a customer’s home. While he rested under a Banyan tree near a tank (pond), Our Lady appeared to him and asked for milk for her Son and the boy gave her some. On reaching the customer’s home, the boy apologized for his lateness and the reduced amount of milk by relating the incident that occurred on his way. On inspection, the man found the milk pot to be full and realized that something miraculous had happened. That man, also a Hindu, wanting to see the place where the apparition occurred, accompanied the boy.

When they reached the tank, Our Lady appeared once again. On learning that it was Our Lady who appeared to the boy, the residents of the local community became ecstatic. The tank where the apparition took place is called “Matha Kulam” or Our Lady’s tank.” (Our Lady of Vailankanni). This was not approved by the Catholic Church, quite possibly because no Catholics were involved.
Also, check out posting 18 on page 2 of this thread, there were apparitions of the Blessed Mother to numerous diversified onlookers in 1968 to 1971. Witnesses included Muslims, Christians, Coptic Catholics, Coptic Orthodox, including anyone who was in Zeitun or watching it live on TV, all saw her. There are videos clips of the apparitions. There were no seers with this approved apparition but many healings have been associated with it.

God Bless
 
The reason why most Catholics only see Mary is because we are the one true faith from Jesus Christ. The Blessed mother appeared in Lourdes, France to Bernadette Souborou holding a rosary. The rosary are the prayers from the Gospel. Only Catholics pray the rosary.
 
The reason why most Catholics only see Mary is because we are the one true faith from Jesus Christ. The Blessed mother appeared in Lourdes, France to Bernadette Souborou holding a rosary. The rosary are the prayers from the Gospel. Only Catholics pray the rosary.
Good commentary and I heard an Anglican say on Relevant Radio the other day so they are instep with us to an extent, is that the love of Our Blessed Lady, is something all Christians should partake in and something lost with many Churches on a great decline since the Reformation. All should venerate her. John Calvin said the Rosary, though I am not sure of the version he prayed.

A message of Fatima is to honor her Immaculate Heart and spread the devotion to that; YEH, so Yes, Jesus is First, the Holy Trinity, but we honor the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, we venerate the Mother of God, we pray to this daughter of God the Father and we should double up because our dear (ahem!) Protestant brothers and sisters, especially from the more Fundamental branches lack this terribly.

Jesus, 3 years, a teaching ministry, 30 years with His family.
 
Yes, and I think it happens a lot more often than gets reported. But one thing I’m really curious about, why does Mary only appear to Catholics?
Tell my why did Jesus after his Resurection only appear to his Mother, Apostles, and a few other people?

The answer is: Cause the millions of others did not have the Grace from God to witness our Lord after his Resurection, Same with Our Blessed Mother Mary ever Virgin, many don’t have the Grace from God to witness it.

Ufamtobie
 
It is interesting that ccording to the Gospel of John, that Mary Magdalene, whom Jesus cast out seven demons, was the first to witness the Resurection.
 
Because Mary Magdalane was the one who had travelled, probably the furthest, in her growth towards Jesus, bearing in mind where she started out and where she finished !!!
 
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