Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin

[CutlerB]

I guess most of you are familiar with Our Lady of Zeitoun. I heard of it some time ago and just yesterday saw videos about it. It was really moving and has the potential to strengthen me in my decision to become Catholic.

However, there were a lot of comments on the video saying things like “That’s Satan! He can transform into “an angel of light”!” I know that’s in the Bible, but I don’t know the verse. Now here are the questions I have and I’d be glad if you could answer them.

1. Are there indications that apparitions (valid ones) would occur after the time of Christ in the Bible?
2. Can Satan impersonate Mary?
3. Can he perform miracles, like healings etc.?

There is another apparition, reportedly from Warraq, Egypt in 2009. The Coptic Church has approved the apparition, but there are multiple videos that provide evidence it was a staged thing, either by manipulation of footage (blurring the lights) or by some projection technology on the building, as one can see a red dot after the figure vanished, making it look like a red hot projector. Does anybody know something about that?

By the way, there’s also those who promote a conspiracy theory called “Project Blue Beam” having to do with projections, but I find that somewhat absurd.

 

[Mumbles140]

Perhaps two of the best documented Marian apparitions are at Fatima and Lourdes. There are reports from secular newspapers describing the events where ’ the sun danced in the sky’ and the ground opened up to reveal a view of Hell.

As for Lourdes, all of the townspeople saw a poor girl in a muddy marsh eating weeds transform into one eating grain in a beautiful, vibrant mountain spring. Furthermore, that mountain spring has been known to have miraculous healings - I believe the current official count of confirmed miracles is 67. The confirmation process is intense and extremely thorough - one cannot proclaim a miracle without absolute proof that no other medical explanation for healing can be found, and one loses credibility by certifying miracles that are later proven (or at least can’t be confirmed beyond reasonable doubt).

Though I do not know much about it, my understanding is that the Marian apparition at Medjugorje were unable to be confirmed, but again, I have only minimal knowledge as to the actual events.

 

[Trishie]

Best wishes to you.
Because the Catholic Church is very careful and wary regarding supposed apparitions, it isn’t in compliance with Forum Rules to discuss unapproved revelations and the Catholic Church rules regarding evaluating apparitions are very cautious and strict.
However some apparitions have been approved as true after careful assessment. There is no barrier to God in allowing apparitions if He desires.

This site has the Church’s rules for evaluating apparitions.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html

May God continue to bless you and to lead you.

 

[CutlerB]

Best wishes to you.
You may not be aware that it’s not in compliance with Forum Rules to discuss unapproved revelations and the Catholic Church rules regarding evaluating apparitions are very cautious and strict.

However there are apparitions which have been accepted by the Church as genuine.
This site has the Church’s rules for evaluating apparitions.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html

May God continue to bless you and to lead you.

Oh, I didn’t know that was not allowed. However, I think the three questions I have don’t rely on unapproved apparitions. Maybe they can be answered apart from such apparitions?

Thank you!

 

[Trishie]

I mentioned the rule so that no one fell into the danger of discussing unapproved apparitions in response to the thread, and therefore no one who responds, not knowing the rules, puts themselves in a position where a moderator might need to act. I generally do this when I see a thread touching on apparitions.

Yes, I understand that your questions aren’t a discussion of specific unapproved apparitions or visions, and hope that some of your questions are answered in my post which has been edited.

Unless the Church is convinced that an apparition is genuine, it will not be approved, but in approving an apparition, the Church has basically stated that it is not deception either by people or by ‘the devil appearing as an angel of light’. Throughout the history of the Catholic Church, this action of God has occasionally occurred. The Lord knows that such apparitions and associated messages can be helpful and it’s wonderful that you feel encouraged.

If the Church with its careful process does approve a miracle or vision, then we can discount 2 Thessalonians 2:9 “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders”

 

[Trishie]

That scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:9, answers your third question, yes, it is possible.
And to prevent misinterpretation of any apparition or miracle as not coming from God is why the Church is so very cautious in it examination and assessment of signs and wonders.

From the brief research I have done, it appears there is approval of the vision of the Blessed Virgin that you mention, so if God means you to be encouraged by it, I thank Him for His great kindness to you.

A separate post as I ran out of editing time in the last post]

 

[CutlerB]

That scripture, 2 Thessalonians 2:9, answers your third question, yes, it is possible.
And to prevent misinterpretation of any apparition or miracle as not coming from God is why the Church is so very cautious in it examination and assessment of signs and wonders.

From the brief research I have done, it appears there is approval of the vision of the Blessed Virgin that you mention, so if God means you to be encouraged by it, I thank Him for His great kindness to you.

A separate post as I ran out of editing time in the last post]

You mean Zeitoun? That’s good. Does Rome have to approve an apparition, or at least certify the validity of the approval?

 

[ConstantineTG]

1. Are there indications that apparitions (valid ones) would occur after the time of Christ in the Bible?

Yes

1. Can Satan impersonate Mary?

Yes

1. Can he perform miracles, like healings etc.?

No. Satan has no power. But he is the prince of lies. This only “power” is deception. Although he cannot perform miracles, he can lead us to believe he can, so many might not know the difference.

 

[CutlerB]

Yes

Which places would that be?

No. Satan has no power. But he is the prince of lies. This only “power” is deception. Although he cannot perform miracles, he can lead us to believe he can, so many might not know the difference.

So he could not appear as Our Lady and then perform healings in the name of Christ, or like at Zeitoun bow before the Cross?

 

[marlap2]

Dearest CutlerB

Regardless of apparitions, etc, I want to take this opportunity to welcome you home to the Church.

May your journey be one of joy and surprises, and may the biggest surprise be the reality and beauty of the Eucharist and all of the life-sustaining sacraments.

God calls all of us so individually, as he knows us so well, so if our Lady of Zeitoun inspired you to look deeper, I praise God. I was in Egypt just before the overturn of the government a few years ago, and was blessed to visit the Church where the apparition occurred. It was the faith of the people that inspired me more than anything. It was very late at night when I was there, and it could have been mid-day, there were so many people, including a wedding that was happening at 11pm!

May God Bless you every step of your journey, and may you be a blessing to others, as you grow in faith and holiness.

 

[CutlerB]

Dearest CutlerB

Regardless of apparitions, etc, I want to take this opportunity to welcome you home to the Church.

May your journey be one of joy and surprises, and may the biggest surprise be the reality and beauty of the Eucharist and all of the life-sustaining sacraments.

God calls all of us so individually, as he knows us so well, so if our Lady of Zeitoun inspired you to look deeper, I praise God. I was in Egypt just before the overturn of the government a few years ago, and was blessed to visit the Church where the apparition occurred. It was the faith of the people that inspired me more than anything. It was very late at night when I was there, and it could have been mid-day, there were so many people, including a wedding that was happening at 11pm!

May God Bless you every step of your journey, and may you be a blessing to others, as you grow in faith and holiness.

I thank you so much, marlap2!

 

[CutlerB]

One additional thing: By recommendation from here, I have searched for Fatima on Google. Our Lady has revealed three secrets there as I recall. I checked up and found that some say the third secret was not completely released by the Vatican. Is that a banned topic here? (Just to make sure)

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

One additional thing: By recommendation from here, I have searched for Fatima on Google. Our Lady has revealed three secrets there as I recall. I checked up and found that some say the third secret was not completely released by the Vatican. Is that a banned topic here? (Just to make sure)

While some do say that, Sister Lucia dos Santos of Fatima, one of the seers, repeatedly claimed that there was NOT another secret after the Church had published the third secret. It is interesting that you ask this question, as this article I saw today explains how a nun who lived with Sr. Lucia has a booklet where she reiterates that Sr. Lucia denied that there was another secret. Not only did she deny it, she was rather upset that people were so interested in some future event they weren’t fulfilling what was already asked for–“prayer and penance”.

Nothing in the Bible explicitly prophesies the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin that I am aware of. Scripture does say that men will be like angels in heaven (Mt. 22:30) and we can see in Scriptures where angels come on God’s behalf in several passages. It is in this context that the Blessed Virgin comes— she is a servant of God who comes with a message from heaven. Obviously, we rely on the Church to discern whether an apparition is true or false. Yes, Satan can impersonate Mary. Satan is a supernatural being with the power that God gave him; he is especially powerful in deception. His “miracles” are more rightly called counterfeit miracles. Scriptures can shed a little light on what Satan and his earthly followers can do:

“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:9,10).

“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24)

And chillingly, from Rev 13 regarding the second beast:

“It wielded all the authority of the first beast in its sight and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed.
It performed great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of everyone.It deceived the inhabitants of the earth with the signs it was allowed to perform in the sight of the first beast, telling them to make an image for the beast who had been wounded by the sword and revived.”

 

[thistle]

You mean Zeitoun? That’s good. Does Rome have to approve an apparition, or at least certify the validity of the approval?

No. The competent Church authorities are the local bishops.

 

[Della]

The Church teaches that approved apparitions, locutions, visions, etc. are private revelations not public. What it means is that Christ was God’s last revelation to man, so any other supernatural happenings must be related to that one revelation but cannot contradict it. And it’s also why the Church declares approved apparitions as “worthy of belief” but we do not have to believe in them, as we do doctrine or dogma. Again, this is because they are not public revelation–since Christ himself was God’s last public revelation to man, but they are considered private revelations that can do no harm to the Faith once delivered but they also add nothing to it in the way of revelation, such as introducing any new doctrine or dogma. A very good book on the topic is Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s “A Still Small Voice.” It’s easy to read and quite helpful.

 

[Farsight001]

I guess most of you are familiar with Our Lady of Zeitoun. I heard of it some time ago and just yesterday saw videos about it. It was really moving and has the potential to strengthen me in my decision to become Catholic.

However, there were a lot of comments on the video saying things like “That’s Satan! He can transform into “an angel of light”!” I know that’s in the Bible, but I don’t know the verse. Now here are the questions I have and I’d be glad if you could answer them.

1. Are there indications that apparitions (valid ones) would occur after the time of Christ in the Bible?
2. Can Satan impersonate Mary?
3. Can he perform miracles, like healings etc.?

There is another apparition, reportedly from Warraq, Egypt in 2009. The Coptic Church has approved the apparition, but there are multiple videos that provide evidence it was a staged thing, either by manipulation of footage (blurring the lights) or by some projection technology on the building, as one can see a red dot after the figure vanished, making it look like a red hot projector. Does anybody know something about that?

By the way, there’s also those who promote a conspiracy theory called “Project Blue Beam” having to do with projections, but I find that somewhat absurd.

As an aside, allow me to point out that while the verse to which you refer says that satan can appear as an angel of light, Mary is not an angel, so the verse is not applicable.

 

[CutlerB]

As an aside, allow me to point out that while the verse to which you refer says that satan can appear as an angel of light, Mary is not an angel, so the verse is not applicable.

Mightn’t that rather be a metaphor, like meaning “Satan can appear as even something beautiful.”?

 

[Farsight001]

Mightn’t that rather be a metaphor, like meaning “Satan can appear as even something beautiful.”?

Maybe, but the fundamentalists who use the verse as an argument are, in my experience, usually far too literal in their scriptural interpretation to see a potential metaphor there.

 

[grandfather]

Best wishes to you.
Because the Catholic Church is very careful and wary regarding supposed apparitions, it isn’t in compliance with Forum Rules to discuss unapproved revelations and the Catholic Church rules regarding evaluating apparitions are very cautious and strict.
However some apparitions have been approved as true after careful assessment. There is no barrier to God in allowing apparitions if He desires.

This site has the Church’s rules for evaluating apparitions.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html

May God continue to bless you and to lead you.

I am pretty sure the local Catholic bishop approved Zeitun.

 

[grandfather]

Is Kibeho approved?

Also Cutler might look into Guadalupe. I think Warren Carroll wrote the best account, Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Conquest of Darkness.

Cutler,
Mary is the mother of God. She is the daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Spirit, the Lady of the Trinity.

She is the mother of the Church. Jesus gives her to you to be your mother as He gave her to Sant John from His Cross. She is the Queen of Heaven, very powerful.

This woman is greater than all other creatures made by God. You did not get to select your mother. God created His. She is His masterpiece.

Jesus has given His mother the duty to console sinners. It is impossible for her to reject her children or their prayers.

She is mother and queen, but mother first.

Adam looked at Eve and said she is flesh of my flesh. She was taken from him. Jesus took His flesh from Mary alone.
You are a child of God by adoption through the water of baptism, part of His family. Jesus is the child of Mary by blood.

Entrust yourself to her motherly care and protection. She gave birth to God and nursed Him and will care for you with the same tenderness and love. All the saints with no exception will tell you this of her.