apparitions

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bones_IV

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I realize that there is two kinds of Prophecy revealed in approved apparitions conditional and non-conditional prophecies. I know from reading that private prophecies from approved apparitions are not a part of our faith. We can use them as a means for repentance. My question goes to Medjugorje, is it still under investigation by the church? My understanding is that the Medjugorje apparitions was considered alleged. What does alleged mean? I come on this site to learn.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Definition of Al-leged

Represented as existing or as being as described but not so proved; supposed.
 
FYI: Medjugorje, is still under investigation.

Although an apparation may be officially dis-approved (declared false)before the apparation while it is still going on, no apparation is approved (declared worthy of belief) while it is still going on.

Medjugorje, is still going on; three of the seers still claim to be receiving apparations.
 
tru devotion,
thanks for the information. there was a book on


that said that Medjugorje is a fraud. I was shocked when I saw that. There are websites promoting medjugorje. What do I about that? This same website also gave disapproval to betania and akita as well, what are your thoughts on those? thanks. I love this forum. It said that in the Medjugorje apparitions the blessed mother said that the poem of the man God was of divine origin. When Church has clearly said no. Some people get the impression that because the appirition gave approval to the poem of the man God, given that Medjugorje is still under investigation, that automatically validates the work. The pope has put it under the forbidden books list. There are occults like the Caritas of Birmingham that promote the work which the Church very clearly forbides. The seers of Medjugorje are said to had apparitions down there too. I heard that it is forbidden to have celebrated down there. The seers would be having apparitions in a place that is not approved by the church.

Padre Pio, “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
:crying: here we go again. if you take a look there is a very recent thread on Medjugorje. probably on page 2.
 
Both Betania and Akita have been ruled to be of supernatural origin by the bishops responsible for investigating the events. Akita was approved by Bishop John Shojiro Ito in 1984 and Betania was approved by Bishop Pio Bello Ricardo in 1987.
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HOLY SEE CAUTIONS FAITHFUL ON MEDJUGORJE
Please read an article that was written in Catholic World News that was written June 19, 2004: www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=713
In summary: The Holy See today confirmed that the Church remains her official position of skeptism regarding the “presumed appearances” by the Virgin Mary in Medjugorje. Thus the Holy See “must respect the competence of the local Bishops.”

You can also read the Latest Declaration from Bishop Peric, the local Bishop, on Medjugorje that was written Feb. 17, 2004: www.cbismo.hr
 
I think your original question, if I understand you includes but is wider than certain prophecies allegedly received by the Medjugorie “seers” and questions the visions and locutions reported by “seers” of other apparitions. No Catholic is obliged to believe, react to or pay any heed at all to private revelation, even if the events have been “approved” by the Church. There is no addition to or subtraction from Divine Revelation which was closed with the death of the last apostle.
 
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deaconswife:
Both Betania and Akita have been ruled to be of supernatural origin by the bishops responsible for investigating the events. Akita was approved by Bishop John Shojiro Ito in 1984 and Betania was approved by Bishop Pio Bello Ricardo in 1987.
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I didn’t know anything about this. Another question. Since the bishops are infallible individually do they (Akita and Betania) have universal approval by the whole church? I will note that Betania and Akita according to www.theotokos.org.uk said that these two apparitions did not have universal approval by the whole church. Does that that therefore they are not approved?

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
bones,

The local bishop’s approval is just the first step toward full approval. Apparitions not approved by the local bishop have no hope of full Church approval. The Holy See does not go against the local bishop if the bishop finds the apparition not worthy.

However, the Vatican has been known to overturn the approval of some bishops. The only Marian apparitions fully approved by the Catholic Church so far are: Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, Rue du Bac, La Salette, Pontmain, Knock, Bearaing & Banneux.

Now Concerning Betania:

1976: BETANIA, VENEZUALA

Regarding Betania, the local Bishop has approved the apparition site where Our Lady appeared to hundreds of persons. But, this approval excludes the private message of Maria Esperanza that have not received the official approval (nor disapproval) of the Catholic Church. The approval of Betania must not be viewed as the approval of the seer.

Concerning Akita, Japan:

1973: In AKITA, JAPAN

The July 6, 1973 to September 13, 1981 miracles and visions of Sister Agnes Sasagawa Katsugo of the Community of the Servants of the Eucharist were approved by the local bishop in 1984.

catholicdoors.com/isit/approved.htm
 
Thanks,

tru devotion.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
The local bishop’s approval is just the first step toward full approval. Apparitions not approved by the local bishop have no hope of full Church approval. The Holy See does not go against the local bishop if the bishop finds the apparition not worthy.
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Bishop Ratko Peric (and his predecessor, Bishop Zanic) have consistently NOT approved of Medjugorje - both believing that the NON Supernaturality of Medjugorje IS proven. The Vatican backs the local Bishop. Here is his most recent statement on the matter in English:
jloughnan.tripod.com/medj1004.htm
However, the Vatican has been known to overturn the approval of some bishops. The only Marian apparitions fully approved by the Catholic Church so far are: Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, Rue du Bac, La Salette, Pontmain, Knock, Bearaing & Banneux.
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“Fully” is a tricky word! For example, the apparition of La Salette WAS approved by the local bishop AND the Vatican - but the so-called “Secret of La Salette” was NOT approved and, in fact, the writings of the seer Melanié Calvat on that subject were placed on the Index of Forbidden Books as also were those of her Spiritual Advisor, the Abbé Comb and other supporters of Melanié - from which they were never removed.
jloughnan.tripod.com/salall.htm

Other approved Marian apparitions also include Guardalupe, Quito and The Miraculous Medal.
 
Sean,

Wow, that’s all I can say. I wasn’t aware of those facts, thanks again.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Good example citing La Sallette, a church approved apparition, but yet the “secret” which came later in extensive writings was banned. If you read it, you will see why. How can that be so? In many revelations, the seer subsequently becomes a special target of the Evil One and can receive more Revelations from the wrong source. There are a lot of potential scenarios with a soul’s free will being involved, smack dab in the middle of a tug of war between good and evil. IHS Daryl
 
Sean O L said:
“Fully” is a tricky word! For example, the apparition of La Salette WAS approved by the local bishop AND the Vatican - but the so-called “Secret of La Salette” was NOT approved and, in fact, the writings of the seer Melanié Calvat on that subject were placed on the Index of Forbidden Books as also were those of her Spiritual Advisor, the Abbé Comb and other supporters of Melanié - from which they were never removed.
jloughnan.tripod.com/salall.htm
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I suppose that explains why there is conflicting information about La Salette on various internet sites. I did not know this either. Probably, because La Salette has not been one of my interests. I researched Medjugorje as much as anyone can do, without actually going down there to have a look around, but then it so captivates the heart of so many Catholics and I have close friends who have gone there. (And were duped) Thanks for this info Sean; I will make it a point to remember. Fatima and Lourdes were also plagued with false apparitions, because the devil likes to sow confusion and disagreements.
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Since Medjugorje as you point out has been proven not to be supernatural, does this stand then? There are so many false seers multiplying, some have claimed to had their apparitions inspired by Medjugorje. There’s a whole bunch of them. And to think that people actually organized official pilgrimages there, the false seers multiplying may have played a part in this perhaps, just my opinion. I’m not trying to suggest anything. Jesus warns us in the holy scriptures about false prophets where he says, “There will be many anti-christs” but the man of Lawlessness is yet to be revealed.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Since Medjugorje as you point out has been proven not to be supernatural, does this stand then?
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I must stress that the current Bishop of Mostar (who has the charism of discernment over such matters as the phenomena of Medjugorje) has written that he believes that the “NON supernaturality IS proven” - as opposed to the formula that “supernaturality is not proven.” In this he is also completely in line with his predecessor Bishop Zanic who also stated his belief that “Non supernaturality IS proven.”

The problem is that - apart from the Vatican - practically nobody takes any notice of him: not the alleged “seers”, not the disobedient Franciscans, not the promoters, not the pilgrims!

Both he, the former Yugoslavian Commission, and the Vatican made explicit statements that NO pilgrimage to Medjugorje may be organized by any Diocese. Yet, we see advertisements (admittedly by travel agencies) in Diocesan Newspapers for pilgrimages to Medjugorje with an accompanying Spiritual Adviser. We also see Bishops going on pilgrimage there in violation of the directions of the Bishop of Mostar and in violation of Episcopal Fraternity - very frequently not even visiting the Bishop of Mostar.

The Bishop and the Vatican have both declared that no private pilgrimage may be made to Medjugorje which has the intention of proving that Our Lady is appearing there. Yet the hundreds of thousands disobediently flock there.

At the base of Medjugorje is massive episcopal, clerical and lay disobedience. In my opinion disobedience flows from the first one to say: “I will not obey.”
 
Medjugorje has not been disapproved, the vatican has not disapproved it, it is still under investigation, one way of telling if an apparation is true or not, is to ask yourself what are the fruits? Are there good fruits, are people becoming closer to the heart of Christ, are they in accordance with the teachings of the teach? It seems to me that a lot of these apparations are all linked somehow, Medjugorje, La Salette, Fatima, Garabandal, Akita, they all pretty much have the same message, repent, fast, sacrifice, pray otherwise a great chastisement will come upon the world, do you not see that chastisements are already occurring? All the natural disasters, the diseases, etc.

God Bless YOu all,
Kaily
 
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Kaily:
Medjugorje has not been disapproved, the vatican has not disapproved it, it is still under investigation, one way of telling if an apparation is true or not, is to ask yourself what are the fruits? Are there good fruits, are people becoming closer to the heart of Christ, are they in accordance with the teachings of the teach? It seems to me that a lot of these apparations are all linked somehow, Medjugorje, La Salette, Fatima, Garabandal, Akita, they all pretty much have the same message, repent, fast, sacrifice, pray otherwise a great chastisement will come upon the world, do you not see that chastisements are already occurring? All the natural disasters, the diseases, etc.

God Bless YOu all,
Kaily
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Kaily,
The people who promote Medjugorje are snubbing their noses at the Vatican. The non-supernaturality has been proven as far as I’m concerned and the Vatican stands with it. I’m listening to what the Vatican says. I don’t believe Medjugorje is supernatural Kaily but I do accept the supernaturality of Fatima. Devotion to Mary should be used according to Catholic tradition. I have no doubt that God gives us messages through approved prophecies of the Church which I accept. I repeat I only accept the supernaturality of the apparitions approved by the Church. That’s it, and I don’t think I’m sinning there.
I followed the promotions of Medjugorje and it only led to sinful indulgences and blinded me. Your conversion does non prove the athenticity of Medjugorje.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
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