R
ricmat
Guest
Here is an excerpt of a document just signed by multiple Cardinals and Bishops:
A partial list of the signatories:
WOW!
A partial list of the signatories:
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Fauken
Guest
I’m now suspicious.
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R
ricmat
Guest
I wonder if Cardinal Sarah agrees with the content of the article. When almost every Catholic Church throughout the world is shut down for political reasons, I suspect that he has some very strong political opinions.
And there may be a lot of political pressure on him from within the Church to back off.
And there may be a lot of political pressure on him from within the Church to back off.
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Fauken
Guest
He may have an opinion, but that doesn’t mean he signed it. You don’t sign something on someone’s behalf without their permission.
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Riman643
Guest
This is not a surprise to me. The liberal globalists have been wanting this for a long time. Hillary Clinton herself said not to “waste this crisis” and to push towards socialism and more government control.
R
ricmat
Guest
Ok, so maybe there was a misunderstanding there somewhere. He might have signed it or given his approval, then got his arm twisted, or maybe decided that it wouldn’t help him in the future to have publicly agreed with it.
What about the other dozen or so bishops who were on the list?
And even more importantly, what about the document itself…is is true or not? It lines up pretty well with what I’ve observed happening.
What about the other dozen or so bishops who were on the list?
And even more importantly, what about the document itself…is is true or not? It lines up pretty well with what I’ve observed happening.
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Fauken
Guest
On what basis do you assume that, besides that it’s a possibility? Possibilities are possibilities. And if his arm was twisted, why only his?
I don’t know, I haven’t heard anything from them yet.
If it’s true, it shouldn’t have to use false signatures. I have no idea who wrote this or who the person behind this website is.
R
ricmat
Guest
So you claim to know as a fact that the Cardinal’s name was used improperly, and the reason why the Cardinal asked for it to be removed. And you don’t know anything about the website it’s from, but you assume that it’s doing something immoral. And you seem to be claiming that the document has no truth to it because it lacks one particular Cardinal’s signature.
I’ll wait this one out. But you should read the document itself. You might find something you agree with.
LATE EDIT:
I just found this correction:
CORRECTION: This story originally indicated, based on information from the organizers, that Cardinal Robert Sarah, prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, had joined the appeal. But the cardinal has now written on Twitter that he did not sign.
“From a personal point of view, I may share some questions or preoccupations raised regarding restrictions on fundamental freedom but I didn’t sign that petition,” he wrote.
I’ll wait this one out. But you should read the document itself. You might find something you agree with.
LATE EDIT:
I just found this correction:
CORRECTION: This story originally indicated, based on information from the organizers, that Cardinal Robert Sarah, prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, had joined the appeal. But the cardinal has now written on Twitter that he did not sign.
“From a personal point of view, I may share some questions or preoccupations raised regarding restrictions on fundamental freedom but I didn’t sign that petition,” he wrote.
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Fauken
Guest
I know he’s asked for it to be removed.
Why should I believe them? Anyone can run up to me with a piece of paper claiming it’s been signed by multiple bishops.
I didn’t say that. I said if it’s true, then it shouldn’t be relying on false signatures. So far, what I do know, is that a random website claims to have a petition which was signed by multiple bishops, one of which has asked for his name to be removed. They don’t say who they are or what their aim is, just that they have a petition signed by these bishops and are asking me to sign it.
I’m going to wait this out as well.
Which you found from LifeSite:
So he didn’t sign the petition.
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StudentMI
Guest
I’ve never understood how the calls for a world authority would be compatible with the principle of subsidiarity.
R
ricmat
Guest
It looks to me like he gave verbal approval and then changed his mind. The correction also says that he had some of the same concerns mentioned in the article.
And that still leaves 3 cardinals and a bunch of bishops.
And that still leaves 3 cardinals and a bunch of bishops.
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Fauken
Guest
Then Cardinal Sarah would be lying when he said “I didn’t sign that petition”. And Cardinal Sarah does not strike me as a liar. There is a difference between recanting one’s support and never giving it to begin with.
Have any of them confirmed whether or not they signed the petition?
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R
ricmat
Guest
OK - just drop Cardinal Sarah from the list, and focus the discussion on the article.
One thing I will say, at least LSN published a correction.
One thing I will say, at least LSN published a correction.
R
ricmat
Guest
I agree.
And I suppose that if we were to have a one world government, it should have Christ as our king. But I don’t think that’s what they have in mind…
And I suppose that if we were to have a one world government, it should have Christ as our king. But I don’t think that’s what they have in mind…
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Fauken
Guest
Something I was thinking about while I was away. I recognize most of the names on here as traditional, solid bishops. Why on earth do they need a petition? They’re bishops. Some of them are Cardinals: Princes of the Church. They do not require popular support behind them to lead or send forth opinions. They do not rule by popular demand. They know this. So why do this? Why did they not write a letter with all of them cosigning?
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StudentMI
Guest
Interestingly Dante Alighieri wrote a book I believe on a world government and the Vatican condemned the book.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the concerns that are being expressed in the letter. It’s starting to get concerning when governments want to take so much control while they tell everyone to stay home, but if you leave they want to track you. That’s worrisome. There is just too much that can be taken advantage of in a situation like this, and it has no doubt been somewhat blown out of proportion. People are starting to ignore the gov orders anyway because they are overreaching.
R
ricmat
Guest
I don’t see this document as a petition, but as an affirmation of what we believe and what we should do.
They’re not doing it to gain public support for themselves. They’re doing it to influence major and minor league leaders, who ARE influenced by popular support. And they do it to influence us - to make us aware that we might lose everything if we don’t go a different direction. IMHO
I’m not sure I follow you here…I thought that’s what they DID do.
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Fauken
Guest
The website has a section where you can sign it:
http://veritasliberabitvos.info/sign-the-appeal/
LifeSiteNews (whose chief editor is coincidentally a signatory on this) has links saying “Sign the petition here”.
Affirmations don’t have people add on their signatures. The Dubia written by Cardinal Burke et al. didn’t.
No. I mean something like this, for example:
Proper letterhead, on an offical website, with the bishop’s signature on it. It would be simple enough for them to do this.
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