Applauding the choir

[buffalo]

In his book “The Spirit of the Liturgy” the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger wrote:

"Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment" (Page 198).

 

[Mamselle_Duroc]

I’ve been singing with one choir or another since the age of 13 years old.

I’m completely addicted to applause. Nothing thrills me more than to receive applause after a performance. Singing and playing music is one of the great loves of my life… and that all those people care about my music… well, it’s just awesome.

Except when it’s in the context of Mass. I’ve never liked their applause. Even as a wee kiddie teenager I didn’t go for it. It was a distraction. All these performance instincts kick in. I feel like I ought to thank them and take a little bow, which would be entirely absurd under the circumstances. I feel dashed rude just turning my back on them to pack up my music. In brief, I feel awfully awkward. It’s one of the reasons I quit choirs.

Cat, I would never say that applause is an intrinsically bad thing, and I don’t think anyone here has implied such a thing. Like I said, getting applause thrills me beyond words. I love it. It’s great. But I do think a lot of Americans are lacking a sense of appropriateness depending on context. Too much ‘such-and-such a thing is intrinsically good no matter when, where, or why.’

 

[Caesar517]

You made some odd statements in your post that frankly had nothing to do with my previous post.

Applause is NOT the same as a “compliment.” Applause is a way for the entire congregation to say, “Thank you.”

Since when is saying “Thank you” to someone the same as giving them a compliment? It’s not!

I said that it was a good thing to say something nice to the choir after Mass. Just like it’s a nice thing to compliment your friend on her dress *after *Mass.

And since when is saying “thank you” a sin?

Since when does saying “thank you” make the Mass less solemn and special?

Anything in Mass that does not belong there detracts from the Mass.

I assume that the anti-applause folks never says “Thank you” to the priest for his homily after a Mass?

Or never says, “Thank you” to the usher for conducting them to a seat?

Your assumptions are incorrect.

It would be hypocritical for an individual to say “Thank you” when you do not believe that an entire congregation can say “Thank you” corporately. If saying “Thank you” is wrong, then it’s wrong for everyone, singles and congregations.

You used the word “corporate” in an earlier post as well. I don’t think it is an appropriate term to use when talking about the Mass. Nevertheless, I did not suggest that only one person can say “thank you” at once. Everyone is free to do so in unison, but not during Mass. Perhaps a pot luck dinner in their honor if you feel it to be necessary?

And if you truly want the entire congregation to queue up and wait for a half hour or so to say “Thank you” to each and every choir member, the director, and the instrumentalists, well, I personally think THAT practice would make the Mass less solemn and special, not to mention make it difficult for the NEXT Mass on the schedule to ever get started. And frankly, as a pianist, I really don’t want to shake hands with several hundred people after every Mass!

Why in the world would everyone line up to say an individual “thank you” to all of the choir members after every Mass?
Even if they did, it wouldn’t detract from the Mass, because it would be during the Mass.

BTW, the reverence reserved for the Mass doesn’t end when the music stops. It ends when you get out of earshot of wherever Jesus is.

C’mon, the way some of you are talking, applause is equal to doing a nekkid dance.

:ehh:

 

[Sarabande]

Does the congregation at your parish ever applaud the choir after Mass? They do it once in a while at my parish, and I’m ambivalent about it. On one hand, I think it’s nice to show appreciation for the choir, but on the other hand, it’s not a theatrical performance.

Ok. speaking as a musician and sacred music musician, here’s my 2 cents.

The majority of people I know, including myself, who are paid/volunteer liturgical musicians or volunteers who are part of the music liturgy, do not want applause after mass. This is because our “role” in the liturgy is not to provide entertainment, but to provide a form of prayer through music. We feel that the applause gives the wrong impression of what we’re doing and what the music is there for. Also, the applause gives a bad name to liturgical musicians and to the music. So many times do people assume that the musician is showing off, especially when he/she is very talented and then people applaud for them. I can guarantee that the majority of those very talented liturgical musicians aren’t showing off. They are just employing the gifts that God gave them and using them to give glory to God and to give to the congregation for prayer, but unfortunately the applause causes non-musicians to think otherwise about them.

That all said, I don’t believe that those who do applaud think about the reasons why they are clapping and are not doing it because they are actually looking at it as a performance. It’s probably quite the opposite. I know that, especially for our parish, most visitors who come are not used to hearing high quality organ playing, nor hearing a volunteer choir that sings Palestrina, Monteverdi, Victoria, Tallis, Byrd, etc. The organist is one of the most humble musicians I know and one of the most talented musicians I know. There is absolutely no ego in his playing. After playing the postlude, the organ is just so impressive and his playing so beautiful (he has brought tears to my eyes with his ability and the spiritual love that goes into it), you can tell that the people - often times visitors - are so overwhelmed that they start clapping. I know he does not like it, but he also realizes that those people just don’t know any better than to clap.

I also think one of the reasons why so many people today applaud after mass is because society has blurred the lines of “proper etiquette” in different “settings”. It has become anything goes whereever you go. There are no unspoken rules that people used to just know from watching their elders.

Don’t get me wrong… I appreciate applause when I’m performing in secular venues, but even then I actually get a little self-concious and embarrassed when the applause starts. But that’s just me.

Oh… and another thing. Most of us are definitely not looking for thank yous after the mass. It’s appreciated, but for the most part, we try to keep out of sight after the mass. And that’s because we are doing it for God and to aid in prayer - not to perform. If I want applause, I’ll do my gigs outside of the mass.

 

[turtle18]

In the United States, applause/clapping is the way to say a corporate “Thank you.”

Applause is an appropriate way for the congregation to express their thanks to those who have sacrificed their time and donated their talents to serve the Lord Jesus and His children.

You’ve got to be kidding right? Look at what you wrote…are you too busy performing & practicing music that you failed to listen to the Gospel yesterday (Ash Wednesday)?

Doing any acts of charity or, any ministry for that matter, with the expectation that you are to be acknowledged by others for sacrificing your time and donating your talents is wrong on so many levels. Everything we do is in prasie to Him, service to Him. The moment we expect “earthly” rewards for what we are doing, we cease doing it for the right reasons.

There are countless, countless, other ministries that don’t expect praise, adoration or thanks from the rest of the congregation. What about the church cleaner’s who beautify the Lord’s house? This list could go on and on and on.

That is one of the main reasons why so many dislike the spectacle that Sunday music has become. Their is an underlying attitude on the part of many musicians that reeks of narcissm.

Sorry, I am sure my post sounds harsh but you really hit a sore spot with me.

As one priest put it, if you want to thank the musicians, say a prayer for them. I would much rather have someone pray for me any day of the week than to have someone applaud me.

 

[whatevergirl]

Does the congregation at your parish ever applaud the choir after Mass? They do it once in a while at my parish, and I’m ambivalent about it. On one hand, I think it’s nice to show appreciation for the choir, but on the other hand, it’s not a theatrical performance.

I don’t think it’s necessary. We actually left our last parish, over too much theatrical type singing, and feeling like mass was more about what the music minister wanted than the priest being in charge…it’s about worshipping Christ…not about how high the choir can hit certain notes, or how talented the pianist is. Yes, it’s very lovely…I used to stop by the piano to tell the music minister how beautiful he played the piano, but mass is not a performance…thankfully, we have succeeded in finding a reverent church! God bless all parishes, but some seem to be straying from the beautiful traditional tenets of mass.

 

[divad]

Our Parish does applaud at the end of Mass for the choir. I applaud with them. We have some individuals who sing solo and it is beautiful and spiritual. The choir also inspires the congregation to get involved and sing. I don’t think God would be offended.

 

[allhers]

The way I show my gratitude for the choir and the people who play is to thank God for them, sometimes the sheer beauty of their music and singing makes me cry. I love that they are there when they are, some Masses don’t have them there and I truly miss them then.
Thank you all who are in that ministry, I will continue to pray and thank God for you but I will not be among those standing and clapping for you at the end of Mass, (unless of course a Bishop or Priest asks us to acknowledge you). I will be kneeling in thankfulness to God.

 

[CTA1967]

What I really don’t like is clapping while we’re singing more upbeat hymns… that happened during school masses. Our choir director told us not to clap along, and that the students were discouraged to, but everyone still claps, even some teachers.

I know, it kinda drives me batty when that happens. Sometimes it distracts me from my playing because some people don’t keep a steady beat…

 

[Sarabande]

The way I show my gratitude for the choir and the people who play is to thank God for them, sometimes the sheer beauty of their music and singing makes me cry. I love that they are there when they are, some Masses don’t have them there and I truly miss them then.
Thank you all who are in that ministry, I will continue to pray and thank God for you but I will not be among those standing and clapping for you at the end of Mass, (unless of course a Bishop or Priest asks us to acknowledge you). I will be kneeling in thankfulness to God.

THANK YOU!!! And believe me, there are many liturgical musicians who do not do this for any kind of earthly praise. Like I said, many of us, including myself, wish to keep out of sight.

 

[Mamselle_Duroc]

The way I show my gratitude for the choir and the people who play is to thank God for them, sometimes the sheer beauty of their music and singing makes me cry. I love that they are there when they are, some Masses don’t have them there and I truly miss them then.
Thank you all who are in that ministry, I will continue to pray and thank God for you but I will not be among those standing and clapping for you at the end of Mass, (unless of course a Bishop or Priest asks us to acknowledge you). I will be kneeling in thankfulness to God.

As a church musician, I thank you ever so much for this. I appreciate this kind of thing so much more than applause. God bless you.