Applying to Catholic School Road Block

[EasterJoy]

Yes.

I’d like to add as well, that families from our school believed that the high tuition was their “tithe”.
They really had no idea that their tuition covered SCHOOL expenses…salaries, books, etc. and had nothing whatsoever to do with the church budget. In fact, it was a Regional Catholic School, not affiliated with the parish on the same property at all. The Pastor made none of the school decisions, didn’t even sit on the School board, was never consulted, and pretty much told the school was none of his beeswax.
So you can imagine that our pastor was less than thrilled when a family came around who never came to Mass never gave a dime, and wanted him to tell the school that they were registered “in good standing”.
Now, this is not the case with the OP, as I understand it. But it does give people some idea of what 's going on today.
The sentimental notion of the Catholics schools of yesteryear, with Father so and so at the helm, and Sister so and so teaching darling children is lone gone.
People think the Church is unhelpful and mercenary. And indeed there are reason why it appears that way. Whether it’s right or not, is another discussion for another thread.

To Xantippe’s point: My daughters received an excellent education, never less than straight A’s in college. BUT…they always said to me *“Mama I wish you would have just put me in Public school.
I would have been Valedictorian, I would have gotten a full ride scholarship, and I wouldn’t have grown up being so jealous of the cars, the clothes, the vacations, and the everything that the other kids had that we could never in our wildest dreams afford. We spent our teen years wishing you were rich. It was stupid. You can learn calculus anywhere. You work in a Church. We got that memo. We love our faith. But we were not like the other kids at all. And it hurt.” *

In our parish, only out-of-parish tuition covers the whole tab. Parishioners pay significantly less, even if they cannot demonstrate a need, and the difference would be a greater fraction of a median income than most families contribute directly to their parishes. (Most people contribute part of their charitable giving to their parish and the other part to other causes.) By the generosity of donors to school fundraisers, the school is able to offer tuition relief to a large fraction of families at the school.

Even in those lucky places that have religious sisters still teaching, the Sisters have to charge a salary that will cover their retirement expenses. Medical insurance and pharmaceuticals in old age cost them money, too, and educational expenses for the younger sisters have risen for them, too.

You might tell your daughters that some of roomed with the valedictorian of a poor high school. In my case, she started out an engineering major and was studying to be someone’s administrative assistant by the time the year was out, because she was so unprepared for college. The students who graduate from our sons’ schools come back and tell the other students that college is, if anything, easier than their high school was.

 

[Xantippe]

To Xantippe’s point: My daughters received an excellent education, never less than straight A’s in college. BUT…they always said to me *“Mama I wish you would have just put me in Public school.
I would have been Valedictorian, I would have gotten a full ride scholarship, and I wouldn’t have grown up being so jealous of the cars, the clothes, the vacations, and the everything that the other kids had that we could never in our wildest dreams afford. We spent our teen years wishing you were rich. It was stupid. You can learn calculus anywhere. You work in a Church. We got that memo. We love our faith. But we were not like the other kids at all. And it hurt.” *

Oh my gosh.

This is a private school rather than a Catholic school story, but I once overheard a very interesting monologue from a high school boy at my kids’ school. The kid was telling the story of another kid that had been PROMISED mom’s Mercedes SUV and then mom and dad changed their minds and he got grandma’s Buick instead. Cue the world’s smallest violin, playing the world’s saddest song!

 

[Xantippe]

You might tell your daughters that some of roomed with the valedictorian of a poor high school. In my case, she started out an engineering major and was studying to be someone’s administrative assistant by the time the year was out, because she was so unprepared for college. The students who graduate from our sons’ schools come back and tell the other students that college is, if anything, easier than their high school was.

That is true, and particularly so in the sciences.

 

[PhiloMed]

I find it astonishing that there are parish schools out there who are having to turn people away because they aren’t parishioners.

At our local parish school, they are so happy to have anyone to keep the enrollment up it really doesn’t matter where you’re from. Catholic, muslim, protestant, near or far.

Must be very lucky in other places.

 

[Xantippe]

I find it astonishing that there are parish schools out there who are having to turn people away because they aren’t parishioners.

At our local parish school, they are so happy to have anyone to keep the enrollment up it really doesn’t matter where you’re from. Catholic, muslim, protestant, near or far.

Must be very lucky in other places.

Well, not if you want your kid to get in.

Apparently Catholic schools come in two flavors:

1. struggling with enrollment and about to be closed.
2. can’t get in

 

[pianistclare]

In our parish, only out-of-parish tuition covers the whole tab. Parishioners pay significantly less, even if they cannot demonstrate a need, and the difference would be a greater fraction of a median income than most families contribute directly to their parishes. (Most people contribute part of their charitable giving to their parish and the other part to other causes.) By the generosity of donors to school fundraisers, the school is able to offer tuition relief to a large fraction of families at the school.

Even in those lucky places that have religious sisters still teaching, the Sisters have to charge a salary that will cover their retirement expenses. Medical insurance and pharmaceuticals in old age cost them money, too, and educational expenses for the younger sisters have risen for them, too.

You might tell your daughters that some of roomed with the valedictorian of a poor high school. In my case, she started out an engineering major and was studying to be someone’s administrative assistant by the time the year was out, because she was so unprepared for college. The students who graduate from our sons’ schools come back and tell the other students that college is, if anything, easier than their high school was.

As I said, they both graduated at the top of their classes.

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, not if you want your kid to get in.

Apparently Catholic schools come in two flavors:

1. struggling with enrollment and about to be closed.
2. can’t get in

I think it has a lot to do with the local public schools.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, not if you want your kid to get in.

Apparently Catholic schools come in two flavors:

1. struggling with enrollment and about to be closed.
2. can’t get in

Well, there is the in-between where there are just somewhat more or less applicants than positions or roughly the same number, rather than drastically more or drastically less. The in-between situation just fails to make people upset.

As I said, they both graduated at the top of their classes.

I meant that a rigorous college prep high school will both prepare you better for and make you more attractive to the best schools. The valedictorian that I knew who struggled in college did not lack aptitude. She lacked experience in really having to work for her grades, rather than just skating through on talent alone. She had straight As, but college was a shock for her.

The best schools usually do not give full ride scholarships to the valedictorians of poor high schools. Now, this might have been different for your children, because there are ways for students who are motivated to distinguish themselves in spite of the help the school can give them. Still, there is a reason wealthy people willing to nudge their children towards public universities because they are careful with their money can nevertheless be quite willing to shell out a lot of money for private primary and secondary schools.

If you have an excellent public school system, that is a horse of a different color. In that case, the “market niche” of the Catholic high schools is far more about providing a Catholic atmosphere and Catholic curriculum (or at least one that is not secular), because only those who don’t want a secular education are really fighting to get in.

When the local Catholic school is the only place you can get EITHER a Christian atmosphere OR a rigorous education–let alone if it is the only place students don’t wonder who is carrying a weapon!–because the public school lacks both rigor and any shared community value system, you’d better have one huge local Catholic school system, because there will be a huge stampede of families trying to get their spots.

 

[Kelfa28]

That is true, and particularly so in the sciences.

I second this.

I’m actually finishing my degree in a hard science that has required three semesters worth of basic chemistry.

I remember first semester, first year of chemistry and seeing the huge number of students in that room…many from poor backgrounds. I was friendly with several who all graduated high school and did well.
Our school had a policy that “passing” in order to move on was a C- and nothing less.

We went from well over 100 students to less then 50 by the time the semester was over. Most of those people I had chatted with had withdrawn from the class.

Many had left the major by the time the second semester of the first year had rolled around.

It’s astounding how un-prepared students are when they graduate from high school.
I graduated from a decent high school about 10 years ago and the standards seemed to be so much higher then they are now.
I did much of my core classes at a local community college and when we had to do peer review and read other student’s papers in English and proof-read…I was floored by what I was seeing.
Spelling and grammatical errors all over the place, no concept of first, second and third person, a complete lack of understanding on how an essay is supposed to be structured and no clear thesis statement.
These were all things I learned in 8th grade and had drilled into my head by high school.

I know there are good public schools out there. Unfortunately, where my husband and I live there isn’t any.
My kids will be going to Catholic school.

 

[EasterJoy]

I second this.

I’m actually finishing my degree in a hard science that has required three semesters worth of basic chemistry.

I remember first semester, first year of chemistry and seeing the huge number of students in that room…many from poor backgrounds. I was friendly with several who all graduated high school and did well.
Our school had a policy that “passing” in order to move on was a C- and nothing less.

We went from well over 100 students to less then 50 by the time the semester was over. Most of those people I had chatted with had withdrawn from the class.

Many had left the major by the time the second semester of the first year had rolled around.

It’s astounding how un-prepared students are when they graduate from high school.
I graduated from a decent high school about 10 years ago and the standards seemed to be so much higher then they are now.
I did much of my core classes at a local community college and when we had to do peer review and read other student’s papers in English and proof-read…I was floored by what I was seeing.
Spelling and grammatical errors all over the place, no concept of first, second and third person, a complete lack of understanding on how an essay is supposed to be structured and no clear thesis statement.
These were all things I learned in 8th grade and had drilled into my head by high school.

I know there are good public schools out there. Unfortunately, where my husband and I live there isn’t any.
My kids will be going to Catholic school.

Most parents I know see the two practical alternatives as a very good school or else home-schooling. Parents can compensate for a bad school system by teaching their children themselves, but it is extremely rare that this works. Most children see academic rigor enforced by a parent when the same is not taught in school as child abuse.

 

[Kelfa28]

The valedictorian that I knew who struggled in college did not lack aptitude. She lacked experience in really having to work for her grades, rather than just skating through on talent alone. She had straight As, but college was a shock for her.

It’s a shock for a lot of students who aren’t used to studying and making time available to study.
I was rusty going back to school and was also skating through community college level classes and getting As while doing the absolute bare minimum required for class. I never bought books, never studied anything and just showed up to class and did the homework required of me.

I was in for a seriously rude awakening when I moved to the university and took freshmen level science classes.
I figured I was fine until I saw the first test. I failed it miserably and was shocked at how much time I wasted.
I actually had to study, I actually had to practice problems, I actually had to purchase the text and use it, I had to go to tutoring and I had to spend a significant amount of time on the subjects I was struggling with.

When the local Catholic school is the only place you can get EITHER a Christian atmosphere OR a rigorous education because the public school lacks both rigor and any shared community value system, you’d better have one huge local Catholic school system, because there will be a huge stampede of families trying to get their spots.

See, this is where we are lucky. We have a massive Catholic school system in our county. There is a need for it because the public school system in our area is so poor and the culture in our area is so Catholic.

 

[Allegra]

As I said, they both graduated at the top of their classes.

Yeah, I went to public high school and I easily beat out my private school siblings on college GPA, AP tests, ACT scores, SAT scores, college scholarships, the whole nine yards. I was able to start college as a sophomore due to the AP classes I was able to take in my high school that weren’t available at any of my siblings’ Catholic high schools. Meanwhile, my younger sister, (also public high school) never went to college, got a job behind the counter at a filling station, and is now manager of said filling station and making more than any of us.

 

[pianistclare]

Yeah, I went to public high school and I easily beat out my private school siblings on college GPA, AP tests, ACT scores, SAT scores, college scholarships, the whole nine yards. I was able to start college as a sophomore due to the AP classes I was able to take in my high school that weren’t available at any of my siblings’ Catholic high schools. Meanwhile, my younger sister, (also public high school) never went to college, got a job behind the counter at a filling station, and is now manager of said filling station and making more than any of us.

I hear you. After my two pretty much worthless degrees (in terms of earning power) I made more money during college working part time as a grocery cashier in a union shop.

 

[Scienceteach82]

My Grandmother took it upon herself to leave another “stern” message for the Priest today. She also called the Director of Admissions to the school. The lady said they do accept Non-active Catholics, but she had no way of knowing what those numbers are. She also said they go by what the Priest says, and I’d be labeled a Non-active Catholic. I had no clue she was going to call. She just wants the best for me and my kids.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, I went to public high school and I easily beat out my private school siblings on college GPA, AP tests, ACT scores, SAT scores, college scholarships, the whole nine yards. I was able to start college as a sophomore due to the AP classes I was able to take in my high school that weren’t available at any of my siblings’ Catholic high schools. Meanwhile, my younger sister, (also public high school) never went to college, got a job behind the counter at a filling station, and is now manager of said filling station and making more than any of us.

Exactly. I went to the exact same school as my siblings and also beat them in all things academic. I didn’t work harder than they did, although I probably did work harder when it came to school. I’m not smarter. I’m just better at school and to some extent enjoy the work. They didn’t all get degrees–some did, some diden’t–but they are all doing what they want to do and they’re making a good living at it.

I had a friend who found our Catholic high school a bad fit, and she transferred to the local public high school. She just *bloomed *there. Now where is she? She’s the principal at a Catholic grade school.

Still, the OP is choosing between a Catholic school and a gang-infested school. She’s a single mother, so home schooling is not an option. Were I in her shoes, I’d be determined to find some way to have my child in a truly safe school, preferably always but at the very latest by the time my child was in the same building with any 5th graders. I’d move to another state, if I had to. Whatever it took, but of all parents who cannot afford to tolerate a bad school system when there is any way to help it, a single mother cannot have her children in a school where she worries about their safety while she’s at work. The mothers who succeed under those circumstances deserve a medal. That’s great, but nobody wants to plan their battle in a way that figures on the necessity of earning a Purple Heart in order to win the day. That’s good soldiering, but when there was any other route, it is poor generalship.

I do know one such mother who sent her son to live with her ex-husband’s sister and her husband. The son was put into a local school there with his uncle’s nieces and nephews, which gave him sort of a family to look out for him in school. He didn’t go to college, but he didn’t wind up with a rap sheet, either.

 

[Sunbreak]

I’m wondering if maybe there’s a charter school in the area the kids can go to. It would be a better option than a bad public school.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m wondering if maybe there’s a charter school in the area the kids can go to. It would be a better option than a bad public school.

Yes. Or a magnet or something.

That might make a lot more sense in her financial situation.

 

[schaeffer]

I find it astonishing that there are parish schools out there who are having to turn people away because they aren’t parishioners.

At our local parish school, they are so happy to have anyone to keep the enrollment up it really doesn’t matter where you’re from. Catholic, muslim, protestant, near or far.

Must be very lucky in other places.

The OP did say that this is a private Catholic school as opposed to a parish school, but as you say here the parish schools can’t stay open for lack of students. Catholic Private schools are opening (instead?) and everywhere they advertise for students and emphasize they welcome non Catholics as well. There are several Protestant Churches that are going this route as well. The prices are high and there are application fees, etc etc just like any other private school.

I have no idea if private schools like this require the number of hours of svc, fund raising etc.

Parish schools are closing left and right. Yes, it does come down to money, but Churches and schools do need it to stay open…JUST like we have no choice but to budget. We lived under the poverty level when my children were growing up and we had to say “no” about SO many things because there was no money. Sometimes we forget that Churches have the SAME issues. It’s not that they want to say no, but the money may truly not be there. Churches have mortgages, maintenance, and operating costs. They can’t fund everyone, no matter how much they wish they could.

As far as expecting people to support their own parish, it’s rather like expecting people to take care of their family’s needs before they start paying rent for another family. Getting a letter from a parish you are active in is nice, but it doesn’t put money into the budget of another church. Again, if you work at one job, you can’t expect a paycheck from someone else, no matter HOW hard you worked for the other guy.

I am truly not slamming you, and it sounds like the priest might not have explained this and handled it brusquely.

Many of us don’t realize just how many such requests a church receives for assistance, scholarships etc. Truly the numbers are staggering. There is just no way to help everyone and so they try to meet the needs of their own parishoners first, while still being as charitable as they can.

In a small (non Catholic) church I attended a few years ago, the minister said that on days when he was in his office there, 5 or 6 people…who were NOT members of the congregation would knock asking for help. As well as at least one congregate coming in needing help each week.

My mother was the accountant at the Catholic parish school I attended. She said it was terribly sad how many people didn’t pay, put notes apologizing for not paying rather than checks in the tuition envelope or got angry when they were approached about their outstanding bills…saying they couldn’t believe a Church would hound them over bills etc. Yet each teacher needed to be paid…they have families too. And books, heat, etc etc.

So try not to take it personally and realize that just as you have a hard time meeting budget and hope for assistance, so does the Church! And the only assistance they can ask for is from their congregants to generously support the Church. They are not trying to keep your children from a good Catholic education, they are trying to be responsible with the parishes precious resources. I truly believe this is why traditionally Catholics registered and supported the parish they were assigned to. People pick and choose where to attend and often as not vote with their dollars.

This is great for a church with a large building or who has been assigned a dynamic priest with outstanding homilies but it can be a death knell for the parishes left behind, and the parishoners of those churches…who have to pay the mortgage, heat the buildings, pay salaries etc with fewer and fewer members.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Our parish school’s mission is to provide an education for active practicing parishioners - it is after all a parish school …

School families are expected to attend Mass weekly and in addition to tuition and fund raising activities donate $10 per week … that’s $520 per year - which is less then 4% of a minimum wage $7 per hour full time [2080 hours per year] …

Am I the only one who finds this policy / line of thinking disgusting? $10 a week may be only 4% of a minimum wage, full-time job, but it’s a lot for a family that’s struggling. First off, that’s 4% of gross income, not after-tax income. Second, $7 is already far below the “living wage” (currently about $15) and not nearly enough to support a family on. A family of 2 (one parent, one child) living on minimum wage is technically living in poverty – they are the very people we are supposed to be raising money to help!

What kind of Catholic charity is it to demand that families already barely scraping by give a set amount to the church to even be CONSIDERED for a chance at a better education? Hypocrisy like that is why people leave the church!

 

[Xantippe]

Am I the only one who finds this policy / line of thinking disgusting? $10 a week may be only 4% of a minimum wage, full-time job, but it’s a lot for a family that’s struggling. First off, that’s 4% of gross income, not after-tax income. Second, $7 is already far below the “living wage” (currently about $15) and not nearly enough to support a family on. A family of 2 (one parent, one child) living on minimum wage is technically living in poverty – they are the very people we are supposed to be raising money to help!

What kind of Catholic charity is it to demand that families already barely scraping by give a set amount to the church to even be CONSIDERED for a chance at a better education? Hypocrisy like that is why people leave the church!

I dislike the calculation just because the 4% of minimum wage job is in addiction to tuition, volunteering or fines for not volunteering, chaperoning, fundraising, uniforms, contributions to class parties, providing class snack, school materials, gifts to teachers, costumes, field trips, senior trip, etc., etc., etc.

It’s not kosher to say “It’s only 4% of minimum wage!” on top of all of the other expenses and responsibilities. That would be like saying that a Porsche payment is only 4% of minimum wage–on top of the rest of the payment that costs way, way more than 4% of minimum wage.