Approaching Jesus

[panevino]

Can I have some thoughts on the way the bolded part of the following quote is worded with regard to approaching Jesus
My understanding is that this is not actually orthodox Catholicism
But am happy to hear some thoughts on any nuance I may not be aware of

“…I think that God, in His Sovereignty, has willed to make our salvation dependent on His Mother. I depend on her–my mother, the New Eve–because Jesus is God, and one is acting pridefully if they approach Jesus, who is God, directly.”

 

[Exiled_Child]

All I can say is, it’s a beautiful thought and a beautiful phrase. I like it very much.

 

[fhansen]

Can I have some thoughts on the way the bolded part of the following quote is worded with regard to approaching Jesus
My understanding is that this is not actually orthodox Catholicism
But am happy to hear some thoughts on any nuance I may not be aware of

“…I think that God, in His Sovereignty, has willed to make our salvation dependent on His Mother. I depend on her–my mother, the New Eve–because Jesus is God, and one is acting pridefully if they approach Jesus, who is God, directly.”

Jesus is humble and true. He lowered Himself and lived among us, and even placed Himself on a cross in order to show just how much He loves us, suffering a humiliating and excruciatingly painful death at the hands of His own creation to prove that love in spite of, and in the face of, our sin. God, IOW is nothing if not good, trustworthy, patient, forgiving, and kind towards man. God is love, and, like the father of the Prodigal, waits for us with open arms. He’s completely approachable because of what Jesus did.

 

[Della]

Can I have some thoughts on the way the bolded part of the following quote is worded with regard to approaching Jesus
My understanding is that this is not actually orthodox Catholicism
But am happy to hear some thoughts on any nuance I may not be aware of

“…I think that God, in His Sovereignty, has willed to make our salvation dependent on His Mother. I depend on her–my mother, the New Eve–because Jesus is God, and one is acting pridefully if they approach Jesus, who is God, directly.”

Am I right that you are quoting St. Louis Marie de Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary?”

If so, you have quoted him out of context here, making it appear he is saying something he is not saying–I assume you did this unintentionally and without attempting to force an idea onto the Saint which he did not express–that we cannot approach Jesus without being prideful.

What he is saying, which is evident if one reads the whole context, is that we often come before God, asking for something, filled with our own selfish motivations and not out of humbleness and a willingness to accept God’s will in our petitions. The Saint is encouraging us to avail ourselves of Mary’s intercession because she is humble and her will is completely in line with God’s will, therefore she cannot ask amiss nor from selfish intentions.

When you read quotes like this, taken out of context, you need to read the whole of the author’s thoughts so that you don’t make to false interpretations or get false impressions of what he meant to convey.

 

[fred_conty]

“…and one is acting pridefully if they approach Jesus, who is God, directly.”

In itself, this statement is incorrect. This becomes obvious when we look at how many in the NT approached Jesus directly.

Maybe what they intended to say was that approaching Jesus thru Mary, the mother of God, that this intended to show to Jesus a great love like Mary’s, and at the same time are expressing an unworthyness as his creature … humility. As Mary expressed her humilty when she spoke/sang the magnificat.

 

[shockerfan]

Can I have some thoughts on the way the bolded part of the following quote is worded with regard to approaching Jesus
My understanding is that this is not actually orthodox Catholicism
But am happy to hear some thoughts on any nuance I may not be aware of

“…I think that God, in His Sovereignty, has willed to make our salvation dependent on His Mother. I depend on her–my mother, the New Eve–because Jesus is God, and one is acting pridefully if they approach Jesus, who is God, directly.”

Jesus taught us to pray the “Our Father”…a direct prayer

 

[Della]

Jesus taught us to pray the “Our Father”…a direct prayer

Indeed he did. And the author, if it is St. Louis Marie de Montfort, as I suspect, is not saying that we cannot approach Jesus/the Father directly. Rather he is admonishing us not to come before God arrogantly, like a spoiled child expecting to get whatever he wants merely because he asks. Jesus also told us that we need to ask with the proper intentions. The structure of the Our Father itself supports this because it begins by acknowledging that God is “Our Father” not a candy dispensing machine. Jesus was teaching us to recognize our need before God and that we should be praying according to God’s will–“thy will be done…” By availing ourselves of Mary’s intercession, we are doing that because Marys’ intentions are always just, right and proper, in line with God’s perfect will.

 

[shockerfan]

Indeed he did. And the author, if it is St. Louis Marie de Montfort, as I suspect, is not saying that we cannot approach Jesus/the Father directly. Rather he is admonishing us not to come before God arrogantly, like a spoiled child expecting to get whatever he wants merely because he asks. Jesus also told us that we need to ask with the proper intentions. The structure of the Our Father itself supports this because it begins by acknowledging that God is “Our Father” not a candy dispensing machine. Jesus was teaching us to recognize our need before God and that we should be praying according to God’s will–“thy will be done…” By availing ourselves of Mary’s intercession, we are doing that because Marys’ intentions are always just, right and proper, in line with God’s perfect will.

I’d be interested in your thoughts on my perspective:

I view Mary in the light of her being the “Queen Mother” (among other titles). Someone who, due to her position, and unblemished holiness, has “the ear of the Father”. To me, she is someone who can assist me (greatly) on my salvation journey, as do the saints. Thus to pray to Mary and the saints, is to multiply my own prayers to the Father.

I am a little concerned by some, who seem to raise Mary to something higher than she is. I’m not sure about “Marian consecration”. What do you think?

 

[Nozzer]

Am I right that you are quoting St. Louis Marie de Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary?”

If so, you have quoted him out of context here, making it appear he is saying something he is not saying–I assume you did this unintentionally and without attempting to force an idea onto the Saint which he did not express–that we cannot approach Jesus without being prideful.

What he is saying, which is evident if one reads the whole context, is that we often come before God, asking for something, filled with our own selfish motivations and not out of humbleness and a willingness to accept God’s will in our petitions. The Saint is encouraging us to avail ourselves of Mary’s intercession because she is humble and her will is completely in line with God’s will, therefore she cannot ask amiss nor from selfish intentions.

When you read quotes like this, taken out of context, you need to read the whole of the author’s thoughts so that you don’t make to false interpretations or get false impressions of what he meant to convey.

Indeed he did. And the author, if it is St. Louis Marie de Montfort, as I suspect, is not saying that we cannot approach Jesus/the Father directly. Rather he is admonishing us not to come before God arrogantly, like a spoiled child expecting to get whatever he wants merely because he asks. Jesus also told us that we need to ask with the proper intentions. The structure of the Our Father itself supports this because it begins by acknowledging that God is “Our Father” not a candy dispensing machine. Jesus was teaching us to recognize our need before God and that we should be praying according to God’s will–“thy will be done…” By availing ourselves of Mary’s intercession, we are doing that because Marys’ intentions are always just, right and proper, in line with God’s perfect will.

I agree completely.

 

[Church_Militant]

As usual, whenever a phrase is taken out of context it can be made to seem problematic.

Some individuals, however holy, may have expressed such sentiments but that is not Catholic teaching so it needs to be taken in context and with a grain or two of salt.

You might take a look at part of an encyclical from Pope Francis that speaks of Mary in context of evangelization. Mary, Mother of Evangelization

Also I suggest that we all need to remember Mary’s message in John 2:5 and which has been the essence of every Marian apparition.

 

[Convert1]

Jesus is humble and true. He lowered Himself and lived among us, and even placed Himself on a cross in order to show just how much He loves us, suffering a humiliating and excruciatingly painful death at the hands of His own creation to prove that love in spite of, and in the face of, our sin. God, IOW is nothing if not good, trustworthy, patient, forgiving, and kind towards man. God is love, and, like the father of the Prodigal, waits for us with open arms. He’s completely approachable because of what Jesus did.

Beautifully put. Thank you!

 

[Della]

As usual, whenever a phrase is taken out of context it can be made to seem problematic.

Indeed it can.

Some individuals, however holy, may have expressed such sentiments but that is not Catholic teaching so it needs to be taken in context and with a grain or two of salt.

If this is a quote by St. Louis Marie de Montfort then it is very much Catholic teaching. He is NOT saying that we CANNOT approach Jesus on our own. It is as important to note what his saying as what he is not saying here. I have explained de Montfort’s thought in my other posts, so I won’t go over it again here. I have read “True Devotion to Mary,” which is full approved by the Church, and in which he teaches no errors. As you cited, one needs to take the whole of his thought into account, not cherry pick sentences out of context and then make them say what they do not say.

 

[panevino]

Thanks everyone.
The quote is a post someone made in another forum, it did not identify if it was an extract of of another document/author.

 

[mattp0625]

I’d be interested in your thoughts on my perspective:

I view Mary in the light of her being the “Queen Mother” (among other titles). Someone who, due to her position, and unblemished holiness, has “the ear of the Father”. To me, she is someone who can assist me (greatly) on my salvation journey, as do the saints. Thus to pray to Mary and the saints, is to multiply my own prayers to the Father.

I am a little concerned by some, who seem to raise Mary to something higher than she is. I’m not sure about “Marian consecration”. What do you think?

Any Marian devotion starts with her merits only by way of her relationship to Jesus.

With that understanding as context, there is not a Marian devotion that places Mary higher than Jesus.

She is recognized as a saint in heaven, the mother of God, loved by her Son, ever Virgin, and full of grace (Luke 1). She is the handmaid of the Lord and all generations call her blessed (Luke 1).

Consider her worthiness in carrying sinless Jesus,the Son of God, in her womb. She is not considered higher than Jesus, but considered the greatest intercessor within the communion of saints - drawing merits from Jesus and bringing us closer to Him, but not done apart from Him.

I hope to have Mary helping me when I go before Jesus.

 

[Della]

Thanks everyone.
The quote is a post someone made in another forum, it did not identify if it was an extract of of another document/author.

You’re welcome, if I may speak for the others who participated in this thread.

There are people who will quote sentences out of context in order to incite others into thinking Catholicism teaches the very opposite of what it teaches. It’s a base motivation, to say the least. Thank you for asking about it so that you (and all reading this thread) may know the sentence you cited is not some kind of wild claim that goes against Christ or the Bible. :tiphat:

 

[Della]

I’d be interested in your thoughts on my perspective:

I view Mary in the light of her being the “Queen Mother” (among other titles). Someone who, due to her position, and unblemished holiness, has “the ear of the Father”. To me, she is someone who can assist me (greatly) on my salvation journey, as do the saints. Thus to pray to Mary and the saints, is to multiply my own prayers to the Father.

I am a little concerned by some, who seem to raise Mary to something higher than she is. I’m not sure about “Marian consecration”. What do you think?

All the Church’s Marian doctrines/dogmas are meant to tell us something about her Son and his promises, not mainly to honor her, although they do that, as well. God has exalted Mary above all the angels and saints, not merely because of her physical motherhood, but because as St. Elizabeth told Mary: “Blessed is she who believed…” Mary acted on/cooperated fully with the graces God gave her (those bestowed on her at her Immaculate Conception and those she received during her earthly life). As the Second Eve who conceived in her womb and brought forth the Second Adam, she is the new mother of the human race–one perfected in love and obedience, unlike Eve who failed in both. She cannot be exalted more than she has been by both God and man.

Having written all that, she does not take the place of her Son. He is our redeemer not her. He died on the cross to redeem us, not her. We adore him, not her. We give her the highest honor we can give to another human being–hyperdulia, exalted honor, but we don’t worship her. Whom God has exalted let no man say should not be exalted.

Consecration to Mary is really consecration to Jesus through Mary, not to Mary alone. When we consecrate ourselves in this way we put ourselves under Mary’s protection. We ask her prayers for us, we look to her as our model and guide in our walk with Christ, but we don’t put her in Jesus’ place in our hearts nor make her into what she isn’t. As you cited, she aids our salvation–as do many others by their example, their prayers, their help. She simply is better at all those things being perfected in God’s love, raised to her Son’s side in heaven, and one whose will always was and still is completely in line with his.