Appropriate attire at mass for women

[thewanderer]

The basis for wearing a jacket or sweater over a sleeveless dress or blouse is meant to convey more of a serious, businesslike mien for a woman. In these situations, suit jackets are usually de rigueur for men. (This is not considered necessary in any but the most staid, formal businesses today.)

I fail to see how not dressing in a businesslike manner is somehow “doing less” for God, especially since men are not being held to the suit-and-tie standard.

Think of Mass as a “conservative” work environment. Every site you hit if you Google “sleeveless dresses to work” says that sleeveless blouses and dresses should be covered by a jacket or sweater. Why would we do less for the Lord?

I beg to differ…according to my company (100K+ employees) dress code, which is “business casual”, sleeveless tops for women are fine, just no spaghetti straps or strapless. Business formal requires shoulders covered, business casual no. This is one of the major dividing lines on the topic.

Yup, depending on the outfit shoulders bared is acceptable in less formal work environments. It is not something reserved for an elegant dining experience or working in your garden at home. When done right it is both perfectly modest and respectful attire and I will never be able to understand why so many people are convinced it is inappropriate.

 

[PaulinVA]

Yup, depending on the outfit shoulders bared is acceptable in less formal work environments. It is not something reserved for an elegant dining experience or working in your garden at home. When done right it is both perfectly modest and respectful attire and I will never be able to understand why so many people are convinced it is inappropriate.

Maybe because so many people were taught that it is not appropriate?

 

[KatieM2]

But then there’s that pesky new covenant and all so we get to wear pants now. Yay!

I don’t believe the NT excludes us from the OT’s ban on cross-dressing.

 

[Cat]

The picture posted earlier does not meet my church standard, or my business casual standard. Put a white sweater over it, and it would be fine.

My objection is not that bare arms are somehow a ticket straight to temptation. They are not. However, through the years, women’s bare shoulders have come to be appropriate in highly formal venues (dinner parties and State dinners) or extremely informal places (doing errands or hanging at home), not in the middle ground of church and business.

If men should be wearing collared shirts and nice slacks, I don’t think bare shoulders are a commensurate look.

Do regular women still have “dinner parties?”

And go to “State dinners?”

Or even “highly formal venues?”

You’re talking about a high class of women that is very small and doesn’t include most of us.

Sleeveless dresses and tops are comfortable for many women of all ages. They are not inappropriate or immodest. My mother and grandmother wore sleeveless dresses, and they were absolutely beautiful.

If you don’t prefer sleeveless outfits, fine, but I hope you do not impose your harsh standards on all the decent, pious, regular women in your parish, and I hope you do not have disparaging thoughts about the many good women in your parish who wear sleeveless outfits to Mass. If you attend a TLM, that’s different because of the traditions that go along with this form of the Mass. But not in an OF Mass in 2014.

 

[Jobis]

Honestly the social backlash and the harassment women face for dressing ‘innappropriately’ is far more important to address I think than actual dress-codes. No I don’t think women should wear mini skirts or bikinis to mass, but nor do those women deserve strange men showing up at church wagging their fingers at them disapprovingly. It seems to me if anyone is to have a say in how a woman dresses it is their parents or their spouse.

Lets not turn into saudi arabia, please!

 

[Book_Worm]

I worked for a very traditional Fortune 50 company. At no time, even before business casual appeared and no woman ever, ever wore pants to work, were sleeveless dresses or blouses considered inappropriate.

Of course, the temperature in which men in their long-sleeved shirts and jackets felt comfortable meant that the AC was cranked up so high that women were forced to wear sweaters and jackets to forestall frostbite.

This very emphasis on something as inconsequential as the appearance of a woman’s upper arms in church is one of the things that takes attention away from the important message of the gospel and the way God wants us to live.

 

[SusanneT]

My rule is a simple dress with shoulders and knees well covered. Not too difficult, modest and (I hope) non contentious. But then I also wear a veil so there is a whole new debate !

 

[PaulinVA]

If you don’t prefer sleeveless outfits, fine, but I hope you do not impose your harsh standards on all the decent, pious, regular women in your parish, and I hope you do not have disparaging thoughts about the many good women in your parish who wear sleeveless outfits to Mass. If you attend a TLM, that’s different because of the traditions that go along with this form of the Mass. But not in an OF Mass in 2014.

Harsh standards? As I said previously, if you look through Google results about women wearing sleeveless dresses or blouses in office environments, even those that think sleeveless is acceptable advise keeping a sweater or jacket handy in case the woman is called into a meeting or whatever.

To me, that acknowledges a wide acceptance of the idea that sleeveless is not appropriate in all situations. I think Mass is one of those situations.

I also don’t think shorts on men or flip flops or logo tee shirts are appropriate, either. In general, Catholics don’t wear their “Sunday best” to Mass. I’ve always wondered about that.

 

[Book_Worm]

Harsh standards? As I said previously, if you look through Google results about women wearing sleeveless dresses or blouses in office environments, even those that think sleeveless is acceptable advise keeping a sweater or jacket handy in case the woman is called into a meeting or whatever.

To me, that acknowledges a wide acceptance of the idea that sleeveless is not appropriate in all situations. I think Mass is one of those situations.

I also don’t think shorts on men or flip flops or logo tee shirts are appropriate, either. In general, Catholics don’t wear their “Sunday best” to Mass. I’ve always wondered about that.

The reason women were encouraged to wear a jacket to a meeting (whether their dress/blouse was sleeveless or not) is because it is a high-power look which women needed because men had a tendency to consider women and their opinion as less important than men. However, that’s generally not as true today, and I seldom saw women executives adhere to it even before I left work five years ago. It has almost no bearing on what is appropriate for church.

When I was young, men wore jackets and ties and women dresses and heels to go to the movies or fly on a plane. The concept of what is dressy and what is appropriate has changed. “Sunday best” has an entirely different meaning today, if it exists at all. There are many devoted Catholics who find an emphasis on what you are wearing, as long as it is modest, to be a distraction from the reason you are attending Mass.

 

[DOJ96]

In general, Catholics don’t wear their “Sunday best” to Mass. I’ve always wondered about that.

I’ve noticed that certain Masses are more formal than others…the 7 am and 9 am Sunday Masses are the most formal, then the vigil Masses and the noon, and the afternoon/Teen Masses are the least). I’m okay with nice, pressed shorts - it is the south in summer after all and our Masses can sometimes be so packed it is sweltering - with a collared shirt. I’m not a fan of sports jerseys, workout clothes, and spaghetti straps, though.

 

[PhiloMed]

I don’t believe the NT excludes us from the OT’s ban on cross-dressing.

So a woman in pants is cross dressing? That’s nutty logic. Then I guess Christ was also cross dressing when he wore robes that we would today consider a dress?

Fashions change with time. Would men in Scotland be considered cross dressing if they wore kilts? No. That was appropriate for their time and culture.

Don’t assume your interpretation of that is “correct” is in fact so.

 

[Luvz2travel]

So what do you think is a minimum acceptable length for women’s skirts and dresses at mass? Knee length. No more than 3 inches above the knee. Ankle length. Somewhere below the knee.

What about guys who wear those shorts to church showing off their hairy legs…egh:nope:

 

[Luvz2travel]

So a woman in pants is cross dressing? That’s nutty logic. Then I guess Christ was also cross dressing when he wore robes that we would today consider a dress?

Fashions change with time. Would men in Scotland be considered cross dressing if they wore kilts? No. That was appropriate for their time and culture.

Don’t assume your interpretation of that is “correct” is in fact so.

Yeah if you apply that logic then men cross dressed through most of history and still do like in Arab countries where they still where a long DRESSlike tunic.

 

[PaulinVA]

The reason women were encouraged to wear a jacket to a meeting (whether their dress/blouse was sleeveless or not) is because it is a high-power look which women needed because men had a tendency to consider women and their opinion as less important than men. However, that’s generally not as true today, and I seldom saw women executives adhere to it even before I left work five years ago. It has almost no bearing on what is appropriate for church.

Interesting how you bring patriarchy and feminism into this. If a man is expected to wear slacks and a collared shirt, what is commensurate women’s attire? How about far “executive casual” of slacks and a sportcoat?

When I was young, men wore jackets and ties and women dresses and heels to go to the movies or fly on a plane. The concept of what is dressy and what is appropriate has changed. “Sunday best” has an entirely different meaning today, if it exists at all. There are many devoted Catholics who find an emphasis on what you are wearing, as long as it is modest, to be a distraction from the reason you are attending Mass.

A subtle dig at the holiness of people who think dress is important.

You are wrong - Sunday best is still Sunday best - only people refuse to dress in that way. There is a general decline in standards of dress everywhere you go.

All I am saying is that I would prefer people come to Mass dressed as if they have to go home and change to continue their day unless they are going out to brunch.

And, I realized, I had no sisters growing up so I learned about the whole sleeveless thing from work and from my mother-in-law, sisters-in-law, wife and daughters, who all have a light white sweaters to throw over a sleeveless outfit for Church. I’m in my fifties, if that matters.

 

[maryjk]

The reason women were encouraged to wear a jacket to a meeting (whether their dress/blouse was sleeveless or not) is because it is a high-power look which women needed because men had a tendency to consider women and their opinion as less important than men. However, that’s generally not as true today, and I seldom saw women executives adhere to it even before I left work five years ago. It has almost no bearing on what is appropriate for church.

I was told to bring a sweater or jacket because if I didn’t, I would *freeze. * It didn’t have anything to do with looking *professional. *

Heck, most of the women had a sweater or jacket that they kept in their office. I know I did. Generally it was white or black, so it went with pretty much everything. It wasn’t part of my outfit. It was just something I grabbed because the conference rooms were frosty.

Now, as a stay at home wife, I still have a sweater in my car. That way when I walk into a store or restaurant and I get cold, I can get my sweater. It isn’t for modesty or to look professional. It is to stop me from shivering.

 

[Book_Worm]

Interesting how you bring patriarchy and feminism into this. If a man is expected to wear slacks and a collared shirt, what is commensurate women’s attire? How about far “executive casual” of slacks and a sportcoat?

A subtle dig at the holiness of people who think dress is important.

You are wrong - Sunday best is still Sunday best - only people refuse to dress in that way. There is a general decline in standards of dress everywhere you go.

All I am saying is that I would prefer people come to Mass dressed as if they have to go home and change to continue their day unless they are going out to brunch.

And, I realized, I had no sisters growing up so I learned about the whole sleeveless thing from work and from my mother-in-law, sisters-in-law, wife and daughters, who all have a light white sweaters to throw over a sleeveless outfit for Church. I’m in my fifties, if that matters.

To answer your first question, in my company, a woman in slacks and a simple blouse, knit top, or even a collared polo-style shirt would be considered dressed commensurate with the men’s attire you describe.

I’m sorry you took my comment as a “dig;” that was not my intention. I merely wanted to point out that there can be differing opinions as to the importance of dress even among people who hold the same religious views. To some people, if their clothing is clean, modest, and in good condition, that’s all that is necessary. We constantly tell people not to judge others by their clothing and appearance. Is it such a far stretch to think that God might also feel that way too and that dressing is more important to other people than to God, who judges us by our thoughts and dees?

I’m sure that there were people in 1925 who decried the decline in the stands of dress from 1900, when a woman’s dress covered her ankles. And each generation that followed did the same.

I attend daily Mass. I certainly do not wear something that requires I change before I can go about my daily life, and the overwhelming majority of parishioners dress approximately as I do. I think attending daily Mass is more important than what I wear, although I do dress more formally on Sunday.

I think your opinion may have been formed more by the norms where you were raised and live. I’m well past my fifties, and modest sleeveless dresses or tops have been the norm as long as I can remember. (That is not to say I don’t see clothing that is immodest or inappropriate on a fairly regular basis.)

 

[estesbob]

I’m sure that there were people in 1925 who decried the decline in the stands of dress from 1900, when a woman’s dress covered her ankles. And each generation that followed did the same.

I

.)

*In olden days, a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking.
But now, God knows,
Anything goes. *
**
Cole Porter-“Anything Goes”, 1934

 

[on_the_hill]

Oh yay! A modesty thread!

You mean this topic has come up before?

 

[Cat]

Harsh standards? As I said previously, if you look through Google results about women wearing sleeveless dresses or blouses in office environments, even those that think sleeveless is acceptable advise keeping a sweater or jacket handy in case the woman is called into a meeting or whatever.

To me, that acknowledges a wide acceptance of the idea that sleeveless is not appropriate in all situations. I think Mass is one of those situations.

I also don’t think shorts on men or flip flops or logo tee shirts are appropriate, either. In general, Catholics don’t wear their “Sunday best” to Mass. I’ve always wondered about that.

Google?

No.

Pick up an issue of Glamour Magazine, or any current modern women’s magazine. You will find the latest information on appropriate dress at work or in professional settings, and you’ll see that it is not what you are saying at all.

Prepare to be shocked.

Each company has its own standards. In my compay (a hospital), false nails are not allowed (for hygienci reasons). And short pants are not allowed, either. But sleeveless IS allowed, at least in the offices.

 

[mommamaree]

Not one person in my family has “Sunday Best” clothing. Not one person in my family works in an office that has “Business Casual” dress standards. Why should we be expected to buy a special outfit that we are only to wear on Sunday to Mass? That would be at a cost of several hundred dollars each season (because my kids are growing like weeds). For family portraits, for special occasions, for Mass, for going on outings, we just choose a nice, well-fitting, color-matched and clean outfit. We make sure we are well-groomed and our bodies are clean. We make sure our mouths are clean (as my son says, we must polish our throne for Jesus to be placed upon!). But most importantly, we do an examination of conscience, so that we may avail ourselves of confession if necessary, or make an act of contrition if that is all that is required. And then we merely focus upon arriving on-time and finding seats.

Our parish hall (where we have Mass, since we are in the process of building a huge church), we are standing room only. It is HOT. Plus, we are in the middle of summer in the Deep South.

My son and husband wear shorts and nice sandals almost every week.

Me and the girls all wear dresses that come to the knee (I often wear maxi dresses). The dresses are all sleeveless.

Everyone in our parish, which is situated in a town that has a lot of wealth, alongside a lot of poverty, is dressed pretty much in the same way.

If a person is attired similarly to all of their Christian brothers and sisters, and they are being neither provocative nor ostentatious, THAT is modest. There are different cultural standards of modesty, and to claim that there is a universal standard across the globe and throughout time actually contradicts the explanations of modesty that we have been given by our bishops and popes.

A person simply cannot say that what is considered appropriate for their cultural background and their social class is universal. That is tying burdens upon the backs of others without lifting a finger to help them carry it. Sunday Best and Business Casual have no meaning in the lives of many, many people around the world. Neither do the ban on the appearance of upper arms or calves.