Appropriate attire at mass for women

[Theano]

I wouldn’t say that it as all common but I have seen priests deny communion based on the way a lady is dressed. Both times I witnessed it it was due to, I assume at least, an inappropriate amount of cleavage. I’d be curious to know if a priest can make that sort of decision or if he is stepping outside of his authority.

This seems to be outside the priest’s authority, in my opinion. By no means am I saying that certain women don’t push the limit when it comes to appropriate dress at Mass, but I’d hardly make the blanket statement that a woman is intentionally sinning when she does so. Unless she comes waltzing into church wearing a bikini, of course… :tsktsk:

Another thing that bothers me about this: I doubt that these same priests are turning away men in shorts or whatever might be considered inappropriate for their gender.

Also, it’s incredibly convenient that the shortcomings of modesty that men generally fall victim to (looking at women lustfully, viewing pornography, masturbation…) are not immediately visible to the public. People police and debate women for their physical immodesty, but have little concern and no way of knowing if the men at Mass are receiving communion in a state of spiritual and mental “modesty”.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

This seems to be outside the priest’s authority, in my opinion. By no means am I saying that certain women don’t push the limit when it comes to appropriate dress at Mass, but I’d hardly make the blanket statement that a woman is intentionally sinning when she does so. Unless she comes waltzing into church wearing a bikini, of course… :tsktsk:

Another thing that bothers me about this: I doubt that these same priests are turning away men in shorts or whatever might be considered inappropriate for their gender.

Also, it’s incredibly convenient that the shortcomings of modesty that men generally fall victim to (looking at women lustfully, viewing pornography, masturbation…) are not immediately visible to the public. People police and debate women for their physical immodesty, but have little concern and no way of knowing if the men at Mass are receiving communion in a state of spiritual and mental “modesty”.

Well, sexism wasn’t the motivation for this particular priest. I think in his view men and women were both equally worthless.

He was a harsh disciplinarian but I do believe he had his parishioners best interests in mind. I do suppose he has the authority to handle discipline in his own parish.

 

[SMGS127]

I’ve never understood the idea of dressing up for Mass, to be honest. I get that people used to dress up for family gatherings and family dinners, etc., but that custom is no longer a societal custom. I feel like Christ would not be concerned with what we’re wearing provided we’re not being super-immodest. Our presence and obedience is what’s important to Him, not superficial things like our dress. I’m a woman, and I typically go to Mass in jeans and a T-shirt (and yes, I wear this type of dress to work too). Anyone’s who’s more concerned with what I’m wearing than who I am isn’t truly looking at me with a pure heart. I doubt Christ thinks “yeah she’s here and participating, but did you see her jeans???!!?!?”

(Also, jeans and T-shirts are super-modest )

 

[marymary1975]

This seems to be outside the priest’s authority, in my opinion. By no means am I saying that certain women don’t push the limit when it comes to appropriate dress at Mass, but I’d hardly make the blanket statement that a woman is intentionally sinning when she does so. Unless she comes waltzing into church wearing a bikini, of course… :tsktsk:

Another thing that bothers me about this: I doubt that these same priests are turning away men in shorts or whatever might be considered inappropriate for their gender.

Also, it’s incredibly convenient that the shortcomings of modesty that men generally fall victim to (looking at women lustfully, viewing pornography, masturbation…) are not immediately visible to the public. People police and debate women for their physical immodesty, but have little concern and no way of knowing if the men at Mass are receiving communion in a state of spiritual and mental “modesty”.

As I said before with regard to shorts it is also enforced against men. There are at least three churches in Italy that won’t allow men in shorts either. And I have seen priests denying also communion to men with no sleeves so it has nothing to do with gender. In Sana Maria Novella in Rome, the Duomo, basilica De LA Santa Croce and even in st mark’s basilica men cannot wear shorts and cannot wear sleeveless shirts and women have to wear either pants or skirts below the knee and no sleeveless shirts either. The rule is enforced on everyone regardless of sex

 

[Theano]

That’s good to know that dress codes are equally enforced with both genders in those churches you all mentioned.

 

[thewanderer]

In the United States. In other countries is not uncommon to see priests denying Eucharist to people based on attire. In Italy specifically I have seen priests denying communion to women wearing no sleeves shirts.

Just because there are priests that do this does not mean they actually have the authority to do so.

Jimmy Akin investigates this question here:
jimmyakin.com/2006/09/spagheti_strap_.html
Concluding that priests do not have such an authority.

This blog isn’t directly about immodesty, but gives a lot of good information as to what conditions must be met for a priest to be allowed to refuse communion.
canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/1733/

I’m posting this since it is from a very very trusted source, EWTN. When the question is asked whether or not priests can deny communion to those who are immodestly dressed the reply is “I wish that that were so”.
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=406172&language=en

 

[marymary1975]

Just because there are priests that do this does not mean they actually have the authority to do so.

Jimmy Akin investigates this question here:
jimmyakin.com/2006/09/spagheti_strap_.html
Concluding that priests do not have such an authority.

This blog isn’t directly about immodesty, but gives a lot of good information as to what conditions must be met for a priest to be allowed to refuse communion.
canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/1733/

I’m posting this since it is from a very very trusted source, EWTN. When the question is asked whether or not priests can deny communion to those who are immodestly dressed the reply is “I wish that that were so”.
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=406172&language=en

I actually think the articles are quite interesting. However at the same time I think they are problematic because it basically denotes the issue that the catholic church in the US and the catholic church in Italy and in Latin america have different sets of rules. Again in Italy andin lLatin america priests do have the authority. I repeat inbtye Vatican itself they will deny communion basedbon modesty, in fact they have signs on the churches advising people that they will deny and can deny people communion based on attire. Moreover in the basilica of st Croce they will deny you access to the church if you don’t comply with the dress code and even tour guides will tell tourist do not attempt to go dressed immodestly because they can deny you access. St peter has also a dress code but I think they ate not as strict as sana maria or Santa Croce but in the Vatican itself and inbrome priest do have the authority, the entire Vatican knows it and they do enforce it. Precisely that difference is what sometimes makes me think that the church in the US relaxes rules hence the links above.

 

[thewanderer]

I actually think the articles are quite interesting. However at the same time I think they are problematic because it basically denotes the issue that the catholic church in the US and the catholic church in Italy and in Latin america have different sets of rules. Again in Italy andin lLatin america priests do have the authority. I repeat inbtye Vatican itself they will deny communion basedbon modesty, in fact they have signs on the churches advising people that they will deny and can deny people communion based on attire. Moreover in the basilica of st Croce they will deny you access to the church if you don’t comply with the dress code and even tour guides will tell tourist do not attempt to go dressed immodestly because they can deny you access. St peter has also a dress code but I think they ate not as strict as sana maria or Santa Croce but in the Vatican itself and inbrome priest do have the authority, the entire Vatican knows it and they do enforce it. Precisely that difference is what sometimes makes me think that the church in the US relaxes rules hence the links above.

I’ve been to St. Peter’s and I’ve seen the signs. They are not denying people communion based on dress, they are denying access to the Church based on dress. There is only one code of canon law for the Latin Rite Church, it applies everywhere and in all countries, and it does not give authority to priests to deny anyone communion simply because they did not meet the priest’s standard of modesty. The links above explain why that is. They are not speaking about rules specific to the Church in the US, but universal rules of the Church for all Catholics of the Latin Rite.

 

[MissRose73]

I say if the clothes can’t be worn at a typical office that has a business casual or professional dress code, it isn’t appropriate for Mass. Most offices have dress codes that prohibit excessive cleavage, tight, short, denim, athletic, club/dance wear, and/or revealing clothing.

I would say the dresses or skirts at minimum should be no shorter than just above the knee caps, and be somewhat loose fitting at least for females of all ages especially if they are serving as a liturgical minister.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

If you’ve seen a papal outdoor Mass, you’ll know that lots of the tourists wear shorts and sleeveless tops in the summer to those Masses. I’ve never seen anyone denied Communion while watching one. (In fact, I think that the priests are actually told they cannot deny anyone Communion because the Vatican doesn’t want an incident.) I’ve been to the Vatican and know about the dress code. I’m glad that it encompasses men and women and doesn’t just focus on female immodesty. I visited Rome during Christmas break twice, so it was easy to comply with the dress code. (I wore jeans.)

And allowing the priest to deny a person Communion based on modesty is problematic because each person has a different idea of modesty. Could a priest for instance decide that women wearing jeans are immodest and deny a woman Communion who wore jeans? I generally do laundry and run other errands before Mass so I wear jeans (or capris in the summer) to Mass. I also read Jimmy Akin’s story in the link above and feel bad for the teen girl in question. Normal teen girl to Church might be a summer sundress with spaghetti straps. And the priest didn’t mention what the problem was so the girl was probably baffled by why she was refused. Would a girl (or woman) in that situation (or even a guy denied Communion for perceived immodest dress) have any avenues of complaint? It doesn’t seem like laypeople have many rights in the Church sometimes so I’m just wondering.