Appropriate Penance?

[ducinaltum79]

Hi all-

I’ve been given the subject of penance some thought recently, especially after reading a book on Church history that discussed medieval “Penitentials.” I was struck by how seriously they took penance in ages past, in contrast to how it works now. Personally, it seems like it doesn’t matter what sins I’ve confessed in the past (and, regrettably, I’ve committed some very grave ones), I always get pretty much the same penance - 3 Our Fathers, 3 Hail Mary’s. This has left me feeling that there really is no difference in gravity between the various sins I’ve committed (though I know this is not the case).

My question, then: is this really the best way to handle penance? I’ve read that “the penance should be appropriate to the gravity of the sin” somewhere. Why isn’t this done? Is there a less vague guidebook that priests use?

Just looking to get some general thoughts, I guess.

Thanks, and God bless!

 

[EasterJoy]

Although you’re right, it is a mistake to suppose that there is any quid pro quo implied…you tell me what to do, I do it, everything is square. We are reconciled by the work of Jesus Christ.

I think what you have in mind can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which of course explains it far better than I could:
***Satisfaction **

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”

**1460 **The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, "provided we suffer with him."63

The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of “him who strengthens” us. Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ . . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth “fruits that befit repentance.” These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father.64 *

Also consider that in ages past, more people seem to have been impressed with the need to do penance on behalf of others…that is, in order to obtain indulgences.

 

[ducinaltum79]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply! I certainly did not mean to imply that I believe in a “quid pro quo” form of penance. I do understand that our reconciliation lies only and wholly in Christ. Furthermore, I am not at all advocating for a return to the days when a mortal sin would be met with 20 years of bread and water fasting. I’m only trying to make the point that what I have encountered personally in the confessional does not seem to reflect what you quoted in the catechism. There is no variety at all in the penances I’ve received, and they never even attempt to match or approximate the gravity of the sin committed. I’m not trying to be a masochist, here - - but sometimes I do wish I would sometimes receive a somewhat more appropriate and meaningful penance than the usual Our Father and Hail Mary. This is why I was wondering if priests have any more specific guides as to how to mete out penance. And to see if anyone else has ever felt similarly frustrated/confused by the seemingly indifferent way penance is handled.

I think a more fitting penance would help me appreciate more the gravity of sins committed, and help me grow spiritually in Christ. I guess that’s my main point.

Anyway, thanks again for your reply, and making that passage from the catechism known to me. I really appreciate it!

 

[NPC]

I don’t think there’s a guidebook for priests to use! Penance varies greatly from priest to priest - most tend to ask the penitent to pray certain prayers, but I’ve heard of (though never personally experienced) some priests who ask the penitent to do some charitable act or to give of their time to someone or something…

There are some serious sins which I’ve confessed a number of times and have gotten very different penances - one Our Father; three Our Fathers; pray the Rosary…It’s a big step up from a single Our Father to several decades of the Rosary! There are, of course, factors other than the sin itself which could determine the penance - the number of times the sin was committed, if the sin was confessed before without a firm purpose of amendment, etc. could alter the gravity of the sin…

In my experience, the confessors who take the time to discuss the sin, its causes and advice on how to avoid it in the future are more conscientious about the appropriateness of the penance…Others, unfortunately, seem to want you out of the confessional as quickly as possible and one gets the impression that they’re just giving out the same penance to everyone.

When I confessed my sins last Saturday, I was rather surprised at the penance - one Our Father. When I reflected on the sins I had confessed, it did not seem appropriate or adequate, so I prayed a whole lot more than one Our Father! So, if you think the penance is inadequate, then it may very well be - if you feel that a whole Rosary would have been more appropriate than two Hail Mary’s, then pray an entire Rosary…The Sacrament of Reconciliation invites us to change our ways, to bring God into our lives more fully, to bring God to others - this is a challenge that extends beyond any single act of penance a priest gives us…so you could look upon the prescribed penance as being the first step on a fresh path; a push in the right direction.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply! I certainly did not mean to imply that I believe in a “quid pro quo” form of penance. I do understand that our reconciliation lies only and wholly in Christ. Furthermore, I am not at all advocating for a return to the days when a mortal sin would be met with 20 years of bread and water fasting. I’m only trying to make the point that what I have encountered personally in the confessional does not seem to reflect what you quoted in the catechism. There is no variety at all in the penances I’ve received, and they never even attempt to match or approximate the gravity of the sin committed. I’m not trying to be a masochist, here - - but sometimes I do wish I would sometimes receive a somewhat more appropriate and meaningful penance than the usual Our Father and Hail Mary. This is why I was wondering if priests have any more specific guides as to how to mete out penance. And to see if anyone else has ever felt similarly frustrated/confused by the seemingly indifferent way penance is handled.

I think a more fitting penance would help me appreciate more the gravity of sins committed, and help me grow spiritually in Christ. I guess that’s my main point.

Anyway, thanks again for your reply, and making that passage from the catechism known to me. I really appreciate it!

I shouldn’t have made it sound as if you might get into the quid pro quo thing, because I’m with you. If my confessor always gave the same penance, I’d feel a bit as if I were literally getting a “short shrift”. As it is, my regular confessor almost never gives recited prayer as a penance unless, for instance, neglect or laxity in prayer were to have been what was confessed.

I remember someone I know who was so used to getting three Hail Marys every time that when he went to a diffferent confessor and got five Hail Marys, he reflexively asked if what he’d done was so bad as all that! He was laughing at himself when he related the story.

 

[EasterJoy]

Others, unfortunately, seem to want you out of the confessional as quickly as possible and one gets the impression that they’re just giving out the same penance to everyone.

I do know a confessor who, from time to time, is prompted by something in that Sunday’s Scripture reading or the saint of the day or whatnot going on in the parish to give essentially the same penance to every penitent that day, albeit in different degrees, unless something different is obviously in order. One week, he said as much in the confessional…that is, that he was giving a variation on the same penance, while not to everybody, to nearly everybody. I think one example was to make it a point to spend extra time in prayer for all the catechumens or all the couples on some parish marriage retreat, or something like that.

It gave me an interesting feeling, because it drove home the point that our choice of sin is not a source of uniqueness, and that confession is not just about us. There seemed to be a kind of a “back on your feet, bushy-tailed, happy to have you, here’s a bucket, now pitch in with the rest of us, why don’t you” emphasis in it.

 

[stuart12]

We had a Polish priest assisting at our parish a few years ago. A holy, generous man. However, in confession, even for venial sins, he would regularly ask me to make the Stations of the Cross, or say 5 decades of the rosary. I’m glad that I never went to him for a mortal sin.

 

[Cable]

One priest answered this almost exact same question about penance.
He said he likes to assign a simple penance that can be done as soon as possible, and the person is sure that he did it.

Also, he said sometimes the priest will give a simple penance for one or more of the following reasons:

1. So that going to reconciliation isn’t discouraging or too onerous for the penitent,
2. The priest might also do additional penance for you (obviously not as a substitute for you doing their own,
3. We can’t make up for it, but Jesus can and does.

 

[Cable]

1. When we do penance, we freely choose to conform ourselves to the life of Christ.

Similarly when we fast, pray, or say the Baptismal prayers we exercise our free will to follow Jesus.

 

[acadian]

I’ve had both types of confessors. One who admitted that his “standard” penance was One Our Father. Sure, it didn’t match the sins we had confessed. But it is never a fair trade-off. We give God our sinfulness and he gives us mercy, grace, (and in the Eucharist, himself). So, One Our Father could be very powerful.

And then there was the time that my 11 year old thought he had “One Hour Father”. …58 more minutes, mom!

With my present confessor, I am much more likely to get something that “fits”. Confess being impatient with my students and I might be assigned to pick one and pray for them. Confess not being able to find the quiet time that I would like with Our Lord, and I might be told to “go enjoy the quiet before Mass and let Jesus speak to you.” Simple, but wonderful. Issues in marriage? Ask Jesus to embrace you…and let him. Or shortly after the earthquake in Haiti, this same priest told me to pray for the people in Haiti for my penance. Everyone might well have gotten that same penance.

No more “difficult” than One Our Father, but different. I don’t know if it’s up to us to worry about what’s “appropriate”. I figure it’s the Holy Spirit working through the priest. More it seems our part to come in humility and obedience and to accept what is given - the forgiveness, the absolution, and the penance.

 

[baltobetsy]

I think a more fitting penance would help me appreciate more the gravity of sins committed, and help me grow spiritually in Christ. I guess that’s my main point.

But, you see, it did have that effect. The incongruity of the penance to your sins got you thinking and praying and growing. For a less deep thinker than you, the identical penance is easy to complete and not burdensome. For both of you, it prevents the temptation of thinking you can make up for your sins, which only Jesus can do. It’s brilliant strategy.

Betsy

 

[thistle]

Hi all-

I’ve been given the subject of penance some thought recently, especially after reading a book on Church history that discussed medieval “Penitentials.” I was struck by how seriously they took penance in ages past, in contrast to how it works now. Personally, it seems like it doesn’t matter what sins I’ve confessed in the past (and, regrettably, I’ve committed some very grave ones), I always get pretty much the same penance - 3 Our Fathers, 3 Hail Mary’s. This has left me feeling that there really is no difference in gravity between the various sins I’ve committed (though I know this is not the case).

My question, then: is this really the best way to handle penance? I’ve read that “the penance should be appropriate to the gravity of the sin” somewhere. Why isn’t this done? Is there a less vague guidebook that priests use?

Just looking to get some general thoughts, I guess.

Thanks, and God bless!

The appropriate penance is whatever the priest decides and the penitant should accept it and not question it. You are at liberty to do more penance if you wish but that is voluntary. You should never question the penance given at Confession (unless you were being asked to do something immoral and against Church teaching).

 

[Joannm]

For the worst sin I ever confessed the priest gave me ONE Our Father. He said I punished myself enough with guilt that all I needed to do was say a prayer of thanksgiving for His forgiveness.

 

[Shin]

FWIF from what I so far understand…

It’s important to note that*** the penance the priest gives you is not the entire penance due the sin*** as a norm.

It is only partial.

In Catholic tradition the penances for sins are actually consistently much larger than they are given now.

This is why when you see indulgences before the revisions listed the have ‘quarantines, pilgrimages, etc.’ listed as the amounts of penance.

Or when you read about the early Church Fathers the people are always required to do large penances, and often had to wait outside of the churches for years before readmittance.

Why are very small penances given today? Perhaps penances started lessening because it was taught that if a penitent was given too big a penance the penitent would be discouraged and despair rather than persist in the Faith. In other words from their weakness. So the penitent was given a smaller penance with the understanding that time would be spent in purgatory instead, rather than the person being too discouraged.

And so, they got smaller… and smaller… and smaller… a weakening of the Faith came into play… so then the priests and laypeople started getting formed badly in the faith… and forgot penance was necessary at all save on a token level…

But from the beginning of the Church up to quite recent times… the penances for sins are actually larger than we have now. There is consistency this way, that shows there are proportionate if merciful penalties, that were similar from the beginning up until the most recent times.

The price is for penance is to be paid. Indulgences are the paying of the price of our penance by Christ and the saints instead. On the cross. It is like you being sentenced to fifty lashes, and instead you go to them and ask them to do it, from the penances they did in their lives. Their sufferings… in place of your just sufferings. That’s… quite an indulgence of theirs isn’t it?

I think you should never stop doing penance. Don’t brood over past sins, forgiveness is forgiveness… but penance must be done too. For our sakes and others.

“Penitents who have renounced their faith and now seek readmittance to the Church should make penance for two years.”

“Penitents who have taken part in any pagan superstitions should do penance for two years.”

“Children who curse their parents should be given a penance of bread and water for forty days.”

“Anyone who kills his father, mother, sister or brother, may not receive Holy Communion until his deathbed. He must abstain from meat and wine and fast the second, fourth, and sixth days of the weak.”

“Penitents who counsel others to commit homicide should receive a penance of forty days of bread and water, which should be followed by a penance of seven years.”

Instructions to Confessors (1572), St. Charles Borromeo, Archbishop

 

[EasterJoy]

The appropriate penance is whatever the priest decides and the penitant should accept it and not question it. You are at liberty to do more penance if you wish but that is voluntary. You should never question the penance given at Confession (unless you were being asked to do something immoral and against Church teaching).

While I agree with the general advice, my confessor would actually rather that I did ask him the questions, and not someone else. I know this because after he gives the penance, he often asks if I have any questions or what feedback I have to offer about the penance. (I have no idea what he’d do if I objected, because I never have.)

Besides, not questioning a confessor about one’s penance while in the confessional is not the same as not asking what the Church generally teaches about penance given in confession. We are not required to remain ignorant or act as if we were ignorant. If we were supposed to remain ignorant, the fact wouldn’t be in the Catechism.

In addition, if a penititent feels that a confessor is not following Church teaching with regards to confession, finding a different confessor is no violation of humility. Not that you said it was; I was just clarifying what I meant by agreeing with your general advice. It is OK to change confessors without questioning the confessor directly first.

I don’t think it would be good to raise this in a group that would know the confessor. It would be bad for the penitents to all get together after confession to compare notes about Father. In this forum, though, the priest is not identified, there haven’t been any blanket statements that getting the same penance every time is wrong–the gravity of confessed sins from one time to the next may be far less than the penitents think–so the conversation is really about the general practice in the Church, not the individual confessor.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve had both types of confessors. One who admitted that his “standard” penance was One Our Father. Sure, it didn’t match the sins we had confessed.

Ooops. Thought no one had said this. So I’ll make my point: if your sins didn’t span a rather large range of seriousness, you really can’t know that. The penance isn’t supposed to be a direct payment, as you correctly point out. It is just supposed to be greater when the sin truly is a lot greater, or, as also pointed out, when the gap between the seriousness and the contrition is substantially greater. That kind of thing. If the sins don’t differ significantly in gravity, the penance might be the same each time.

 

[ducinaltum79]

Thank you to everyone who posted a reply to my question! There’s a lot of great material for me to reflect on, and new perspectives to think about. Something that seems consistent in most of the replies is the need for greater personal humility when approaching the sacrament, something which I certainly need to work on. The contrast between the mercy of Christ in the Church and the gravity of my own sins is perfect material for contemplation. Why didn’t I think of this before!

I’d also never thought about the connection between penance for my own sins, and the communion of saints. The idea that we are all working out our salvation in communion with one another, and that my penance can also contribute to the good of the Church. That’s a really beautiful and inspiring thought. It does make me want to do more penance on my own, for the sake of the Body of Christ. It’s been something, as I said, that’s been much on my mind. I don’t hear much about penance from the churches I go to. Even for Lent, the emphasis is much more on adding an additional prayer to your daily life, or something like that, rather than on any kind of mortification such as fasting and the like (though let me be upfront - I think both forms of penance are praiseworthy). Still, from many of the Catholics I speak to, I get the sense that penance as mortification is often misunderstood, or not even considered. It seems artificial somehow, or affected. We no longer have any personal connection or understanding of this traditional form of penance.

Regardless, I think I’ll take the advice of the forum members, and try to a) approach the sacrament with greater humility, b) consider doing more penance on my own, and c) discuss the question of penance directly with my priest, when appropriate.

Again, thank you very much to everyone! I really appreciate your help!

God bless,
Ron

 

[peary]

Hi all-

I’ve been given the subject of penance some thought recently, especially after reading a book on Church history that discussed medieval “Penitentials.” I was struck by how seriously they took penance in ages past, in contrast to how it works now. Personally, it seems like it doesn’t matter what sins I’ve confessed in the past (and, regrettably, I’ve committed some very grave ones), I always get pretty much the same penance - 3 Our Fathers, 3 Hail Mary’s. This has left me feeling that there really is no difference in gravity between the various sins I’ve committed (though I know this is not the case).

My question, then: is this really the best way to handle penance? I’ve read that “the penance should be appropriate to the gravity of the sin” somewhere. Why isn’t this done? Is there a less vague guidebook that priests use?

Just looking to get some general thoughts, I guess.

Thanks, and God bless!

one humbly accepts the penance that a priest gives you. If you wish to add more to it, then that is a personal matter between you and God.

The Our Father is the PERFECT prayer and incorporates praise, asking forgiveness, and supplication. The Hail Mary is taken from Scripture and also humbly asks for Mary’s intercession in our life to gain sanctification. I fail to see how praying these prayers is less of a penance than, say, something more harsh. The sacrament of Reconciliation is for forgiveness of our sins.