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malphono
Guest
Well said, Aramis.
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malphono
Guest
Shame that our Chaldean/Assyrian brethren are no longer active on this forum.
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
Sure, Maronites are Catholics and connected to the Catholic Church, never said something contrary. That’s why I said “So close”.
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
I posted few Arab saints to help the student in his essay, but since you asked, I stated that maronites who live in Lebanon are Arabs at least most of them.
Maron was a was a 5th century Syrian Christian monk. ( If you notice the century )
Charbel born as Youssef Antoun Makhlouf in Bekaa Kafra in northern Lebanon, was a Maronite Catholic monk and priest ( If you try to check his name, it’s an arabic )
May 8, 1828 – December 24, 1898
Hardini, his full name is Nimattullah Kassab Al-Hardini ( NImatuLLAH means in arabic “The Grace of God”) 1808 - December 14, 1858
Rafka:Her full name is Rafqa Pietra Choboq Ar-Rayès ( Arabic name for Rebecca) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafqa_Pietra_Choboq_Ar-Ray%C3%A8s
June 29, 1832 – March 23, 1914
I may be right, I may be wrong, but I meant by “New age”, that they are not so old as Maron (5th century ) to call them Syriac. It’s almost as calling the existing Egyptians Pharonites.
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
I apologize in calling it a sect, not so fluent in English here. Yes, It’s a well known Church for 1600 years, I agree.What is this “new age” sect?This “sect”, properly known as a Church, is over 1600 years old—the only Eastern Catholic Church, mind you, which has kept unity with the Holy See since its creation. We just observed the 1600th anniversary of the death of it’s founder, St. Maron, a few weeks back. And I hear that HH Pope Benedict XVI had his own celebration in Rome.
If you are Catholic, surely you should be giving our fellow Catholics some respect by not calling it a “sect”. That is a term I reserve for the Branch Dividians, those who lead their followers to drink Kool-Aid laced with poison, and their ilk.
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
I see you have noticed my ‘Religion’, It was an ‘atheist’, I changed it because I don’t want anyone to think I’m attacking their beliefs, but if it makes things clear, I’ll re-put it instead of “etc.”
I meant by “new age” saints ( Charbel, Rafka, Hardini), that they are not so ancient as St Maron. ( 5th century )
Concerning “sect”, I don’t know another word, didn’t mean something bad
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I understand now. Thank you for the explanation.
I apologize for my misunderstanding and my assumption of nefarious motives.
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Formosus
Guest
I understand your point now, much akin to the term “caucasian” to describe indo-European people (culturally I mean ). It still comes off as a little confusing when Arab is used to describe both semitic culture as a whole and one particular subset or semites.
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angelic06
Guest
My apologies for the misunderstanding as well. Take care.
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angelic06
Guest
That makes sense now. Thank you graciously for the explanation.
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Ranklyfrank
Guest
How about St. Rabia of Basra, (c.717-801), the phenomenal poet and healer who is included in Love Poems from God along with St. Francis of Assisi, St. Teresa of Avila and others? For that matter, how about Rumi or Shams i Tabriz?
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Addai
Guest
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chaldobyzantine
Guest
I guess its time for a Chaldean to post in this repetitive thread. My apologies to the OP.
History shows that Chaldeans and Assyrians are descended from Akkadians, Sumerians, and Aramaeans. Aramaeans were from modern day Syria. Akkadians and Sumerians from Mesopotamia.
Maronites and Syriacs, and possibly Melkites, are descended from Phoenicians (Lebanon) and Aramaeans. The Aramaic culture being the common element and dominant aspect of our cultures is what keeps these four “identities” in common with each other. I don’t mean to sound like a know-it-all but this is confirmed by genealogical DNA tests.
None of the aforementioned ethnic and historic backgrounds descend from Arab, Arabian, or Jewish ancestry, but it is rather the opposite. Seeing as Jews claim to be descendants of Jacob, who was the grandson of Abraham, who was from Ur of Chaldea (southern Mesopotamia), and Arabs claim to be descended from Ishmael, son of Abraham, it wouldn’t make any sense to call the Aramaic ethnicites as Arabs.
Currently Syriac (modern day Aramaic) is the mother tongue of Chaldean, Assyrians, and Syriacs. Aramaic is also the primary liturgical language for the Maronite, Chaldean, Assyrian, and Syriac churches. Due to the disgusting pan-Arab movements of the past century, and hundreds more years of oppression by Muslims, many of these Aramaic people aren’t fluent in their mother tongue, but Arabic. This is sadly especially true for Maronites, even though mostly clergy are taught to be fluent in the Syriac language.
BTW Saint Abo of Tbilisi was originally a Muslim Baghdadi, who converted to Christianity, so I guess he counts as an Arab saint.
History shows that Chaldeans and Assyrians are descended from Akkadians, Sumerians, and Aramaeans. Aramaeans were from modern day Syria. Akkadians and Sumerians from Mesopotamia.
Maronites and Syriacs, and possibly Melkites, are descended from Phoenicians (Lebanon) and Aramaeans. The Aramaic culture being the common element and dominant aspect of our cultures is what keeps these four “identities” in common with each other. I don’t mean to sound like a know-it-all but this is confirmed by genealogical DNA tests.
None of the aforementioned ethnic and historic backgrounds descend from Arab, Arabian, or Jewish ancestry, but it is rather the opposite. Seeing as Jews claim to be descendants of Jacob, who was the grandson of Abraham, who was from Ur of Chaldea (southern Mesopotamia), and Arabs claim to be descended from Ishmael, son of Abraham, it wouldn’t make any sense to call the Aramaic ethnicites as Arabs.
Currently Syriac (modern day Aramaic) is the mother tongue of Chaldean, Assyrians, and Syriacs. Aramaic is also the primary liturgical language for the Maronite, Chaldean, Assyrian, and Syriac churches. Due to the disgusting pan-Arab movements of the past century, and hundreds more years of oppression by Muslims, many of these Aramaic people aren’t fluent in their mother tongue, but Arabic. This is sadly especially true for Maronites, even though mostly clergy are taught to be fluent in the Syriac language.
BTW Saint Abo of Tbilisi was originally a Muslim Baghdadi, who converted to Christianity, so I guess he counts as an Arab saint.
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dzheremi
Guest
I didn’t know there were so many followers of the Kamal Salibi School of Revisionist BS here on CAF. 
Concerning the linguistic and cultural history of the Maronites, it is inseparable from the Syriac axis on which their Christianity for so long rested. While most places where the Muslims gained a foothold had switched to Arabic, Maronites kept Syriac alive as their spoken language until approximately the 16th century, though by the Pontifical Mission of 1580 the texts that were brought for education of the people were Garshuni, Arabic written in Syriac letters, indicating that the language was most definitely on its way out. As a point of comparison, a similar decline happened to Coptic in Egypt (“ajami” Coptic, if you will, written in Arabic script) but it started as early as the 11th century.
Maronites are, at their origin, NOT Arabs. Let the Muslims prattle on about their Arab unification pipe-dream (hahaha…“Arab nation”? You mean like the United Arab Republic, which couldn’t even stay together for five years? I have socks older than that!). It is all a bunch of garbage, trying to drag people into some union that they don’t want, so you can pretend like it’s still the 1950s and you are Gamal Nasser, or maybe the 1970s and you are George Habash. And for what? It is not enough that you already took the people’s language and their churches, now you also have to take their history and identity and sacrifice it to your Arab-centric worldview? Why is it that non-Syriac people never have to defend their identities like this? I work with languages all the time (and increasingly with Middle Eastern languages), and even in academic books and articles nobody ever seems to miss a chance to heap all kinds of scorn and doubt and derision on the Syriac people. It’s disgusting. But those same sources will gobble up all the claims from the Arabs and the Turks and whoever else was running the show for the period of time they’re looking at. And if you look in them for information on the pre-Islamic histories of places, they’ll either pretend like it’s some giant void shrouded in mystery (do they forget that Islam is the only one of the major world religions to have been born entirely within recorded history?), or cook up some ridiculous nonsense about how all the Syriacs are somehow really Lakhmid or Ghassanid Arabs!
Sorry for the rant, but the one thing I hate more than Arabism (a.k.a. Islamism for confused Christians, and Muslims who can’t grow beards) is historical revisionism. Read a damn history book if you’re going to get on here and claim things about the natives of the Middle East. I don’t want to hear about the glories of Baghdad or Damascus from some stupid Arab conqueror unless he can prove he knows something about the real history of the world and the region he’s claiming as his own. It’s Tel Keppe, not Tel Kaif, and there is plenty of room for you out in the Saudi desert if you want to be Arab. Jurji Zeydan, Gamal Nasser, George Habash, Michel Aflaq and all those other morons could’ve moved out there and started up one of those nice little Arab tent settlements they romanticized so damned much and left North Africa and the Levant to the people who were doing a perfectly good job of cultivating it before a bunch of Muslim yahoos from Arabia showed up to bestow the Arab nationality and race upon everyone they decided to rape.
Oh the world that could have been!
Concerning the linguistic and cultural history of the Maronites, it is inseparable from the Syriac axis on which their Christianity for so long rested. While most places where the Muslims gained a foothold had switched to Arabic, Maronites kept Syriac alive as their spoken language until approximately the 16th century, though by the Pontifical Mission of 1580 the texts that were brought for education of the people were Garshuni, Arabic written in Syriac letters, indicating that the language was most definitely on its way out. As a point of comparison, a similar decline happened to Coptic in Egypt (“ajami” Coptic, if you will, written in Arabic script) but it started as early as the 11th century.
Maronites are, at their origin, NOT Arabs. Let the Muslims prattle on about their Arab unification pipe-dream (hahaha…“Arab nation”? You mean like the United Arab Republic, which couldn’t even stay together for five years? I have socks older than that!). It is all a bunch of garbage, trying to drag people into some union that they don’t want, so you can pretend like it’s still the 1950s and you are Gamal Nasser, or maybe the 1970s and you are George Habash. And for what? It is not enough that you already took the people’s language and their churches, now you also have to take their history and identity and sacrifice it to your Arab-centric worldview? Why is it that non-Syriac people never have to defend their identities like this? I work with languages all the time (and increasingly with Middle Eastern languages), and even in academic books and articles nobody ever seems to miss a chance to heap all kinds of scorn and doubt and derision on the Syriac people. It’s disgusting. But those same sources will gobble up all the claims from the Arabs and the Turks and whoever else was running the show for the period of time they’re looking at. And if you look in them for information on the pre-Islamic histories of places, they’ll either pretend like it’s some giant void shrouded in mystery (do they forget that Islam is the only one of the major world religions to have been born entirely within recorded history?), or cook up some ridiculous nonsense about how all the Syriacs are somehow really Lakhmid or Ghassanid Arabs!
Sorry for the rant, but the one thing I hate more than Arabism (a.k.a. Islamism for confused Christians, and Muslims who can’t grow beards) is historical revisionism. Read a damn history book if you’re going to get on here and claim things about the natives of the Middle East. I don’t want to hear about the glories of Baghdad or Damascus from some stupid Arab conqueror unless he can prove he knows something about the real history of the world and the region he’s claiming as his own. It’s Tel Keppe, not Tel Kaif, and there is plenty of room for you out in the Saudi desert if you want to be Arab. Jurji Zeydan, Gamal Nasser, George Habash, Michel Aflaq and all those other morons could’ve moved out there and started up one of those nice little Arab tent settlements they romanticized so damned much and left North Africa and the Levant to the people who were doing a perfectly good job of cultivating it before a bunch of Muslim yahoos from Arabia showed up to bestow the Arab nationality and race upon everyone they decided to rape.
Oh the world that could have been!
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malphono
Guest
I guess its time for a Chaldean to post in this repetitive thread. …
Maronites and Syriacs, and possibly Melkites, are descended from Phoenicians (Lebanon) and Aramaeans. The Aramaic culture being the common element and dominant aspect of our cultures is what keeps these four “identities” in common with each other. I don’t mean to sound like a know-it-all but this is confirmed by genealogical DNA tests.
None of the aforementioned ethnic and historic backgrounds descend from Arab, Arabian, or Jewish ancestry, but it is rather the opposite.
Thank you both for injecting sanity into this thread.Concerning the linguistic and cultural history of the Maronites, it is inseparable from the Syriac axis on which their Christianity for so long rested. …
Maronites are, at their origin, NOT Arabs. …
… Why is it that non-Syriac people never have to defend their identities like this? I work with languages all the time (and increasingly with Middle Eastern languages), and even in academic books and articles nobody ever seems to miss a chance to heap all kinds of scorn and doubt and derision on the Syriac people. It’s disgusting. But those same sources will gobble up all the claims from the Arabs and the Turks and whoever else was running the show for the period of time they’re looking at. And if you look in them for information on the pre-Islamic histories of places, they’ll either pretend like it’s some giant void shrouded in mystery (do they forget that Islam is the only one of the major world religions to have been born entirely within recorded history?), or cook up some ridiculous nonsense about how all the Syriacs are somehow really Lakhmid or Ghassanid Arabs!
Oh the world that could have been!
How about St Ahmed: orthodoxwiki.org/Ahmed_the_Calligrapher
He was part of the Ottoman Empire.
As-Salamu alaykum,
Zekariya
He was part of the Ottoman Empire.
As-Salamu alaykum,
Zekariya
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malphono
Guest
He was Turkish.
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Ignatios
Guest
I know that there is a few Arab Saints here is a couple:
Saint Joseph Haddad
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Joseph_of_Damascus
And Saint Jacob of Hamatoura, Lebanon:
hamatoura.com/
Click on Saint Jacob and then click the American flag for English.
I see Malphono to be correct with his arguement concerning the ethnicity of the Maronites Saints, John of Damascus and S.S Serguis and Baccos.
GOD bless
Saint Joseph Haddad
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Joseph_of_Damascus
And Saint Jacob of Hamatoura, Lebanon:
hamatoura.com/
Click on Saint Jacob and then click the American flag for English.
I see Malphono to be correct with his arguement concerning the ethnicity of the Maronites Saints, John of Damascus and S.S Serguis and Baccos.
GOD bless
My bad.
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