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malphono
Guest
This is a joke, obviously, and I repeat that it is NOT amusing. Pardon me, but I have to go on to the ignore list now.
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malphono
Guest
Ethnicity is Syriac. Period.
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malphono
Guest
Garbage
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Thanks. Are all Lebanese Syriac in origin? I know those in my Melkite parish would get upset when they were called Arabs and would say that they are not Arabs but Lebanese.
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malphono
Guest
If you haven’t already, have a look at the old thread that I noted earlier.
That should help clarify things a bit. 
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
The President of Lebanon is Maronite (Christian) and he’s Arab, Maronites who born in Lebanon are Arabs. There are 22 arab countries, Lebanon is one of them.
Saying “They are not arabs but Lebanese” is an oxymoron, but some say it, it’s a sort of denial because there is a western stereotyping that Arabs = Islam, which is not true. Anyway the saint I have mentioned ( Charbel, Rafka, Hardini) are classified as arabs not Syriac, because Syriac is an old origin and those are new age saints.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I am not saying it. They are saying it. That is a very big difference.
Again, so you do not miss it. The Lebanese Melkites at the parish I attend at home do not identify themselves as Arabs and get upset when called such.
I think today everyone labels anyone from the Middle East as an Arab which is not true.
I also have some Iranian friends who also object to being called Arabs and identify themselves as Persians.
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FlowerOfLife
Guest
I’m not missing your point, really, I know what you mean, but your Iranian friends who identify themselves as Persians, THEY ARE Persians not Arabs, they are telling you the truth, while it’s not the case with Lebanese who classify themselves as non arabs, Because Iran is not an arabic country, while Lebanon Is.
I’m from Lebanon and Arab from maronite family sides. All this new age maronites in Lebanon are arabs…including the saints I mentioned. ( Chrabel, Rafka, Hardini )
The founder of the sect is Syriac, but maronites are not necessary syriacs, most of them at this age are arabs
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angelic06
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Pardon me—not to derail this thread----but Maronites ***are ***Catholics (Christians in full communion with the Holy See of Rome)-----not “close to Catholicism”.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Stating that all of them are Arabs, especially when many of them say they are not, seems a bit presumptuous.
Kind of reminds me of the Russians. The Russians claim that all Slavic people are Russian. Which I know is not true.
So what are Syriac people? Are you claiming they are Arabs but just refuse to acknowledge it?
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angelic06
Guest
What is this “new age” sect?
This “sect”, properly known as a Church, is over 1600 years old—the only Eastern Catholic Church, mind you, which has kept unity with the Holy See since its creation. We just observed the 1600th anniversary of the death of it’s founder, St. Maron, a few weeks back. And I hear that HH Pope Benedict XVI had his own celebration in Rome.If you are Catholic, surely you should be giving our fellow Catholics some respect by not calling it a “sect”. That is a term I reserve for the Branch Dividians, those who lead their followers to drink Kool-Aid laced with poison, and their ilk.
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angelic06
Guest
Hmmm…I missed the part where you said you have a Maronite family history. Well, take some pride in your Church by not using the word “sect” to describe it----that word has a bad connotation to it. It (your Church) has a rich history, and God bless.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While FlowerOfLife might say that he (sorry if it is a she, I use he as a generic pronoun when the actual gender of a user is unknown) has a Maronite family history, he lists his religion as “etc” whatever that means.
With his instance that all in the area are Arab and using words like “new age” and “sect” I highly doubt that he is a Catholic.
I have my suspicions but I will not state them.
I would ask FlowerOfLife to identify his religious affiliation as that can help us understand where he is coming from.
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Ghosty
Guest
From my experience there are two connotations of “Arab”. The first is of anyone from an Arabic speaking country, which includes most of the Middle East and North Africa. This is a broad term and it’s common to hear people from the region use it in this way. The other, and more exact, sense is people of Arab blood, and that is a much smaller group (though there is obviously much mingling of blood, especially among Muslims populations).
People like St. Charbel fall into the first category, but not necessarily the second (I honestly don’t know if St. Charbel was ethnically Arab or Syriac, but I would guess he was likely the latter, or at most from a mixed lineage). People like the ancient Fathers mentioned above fit neither category, except for the aforementioned St. John Damascene who might have been Arab in both senses.
The first sense of the word “Arab” would be like calling all people from English-speaking countries “Anglo”, which some Latinos/Hispanics do IIRC. We share a common language and cultural traits to a large degree, but we’re not necessarily the same people ethnically (especially in the case of the U.S., where I would bet most of us don’t have much, if any, English blood).
As a side note I’ve spoken with many Maronites who will call themselves Arabs, and in the next breath insist that they are not Arabs but Syriac, or more often simply Maronite (which amounts to a subgroup of Syriacs, after all). I’ve also spoken to many Palestinian Melkites who will make the same distinction, though obviously they don’t identify with the Maronite/Syriac identity.
Being from a Middle Eastern bloodline that is decidedly not Arab, nor associated with it, I’m sensitive to these kinds of things I guess.
Peace and God bless!
People like St. Charbel fall into the first category, but not necessarily the second (I honestly don’t know if St. Charbel was ethnically Arab or Syriac, but I would guess he was likely the latter, or at most from a mixed lineage). People like the ancient Fathers mentioned above fit neither category, except for the aforementioned St. John Damascene who might have been Arab in both senses.
The first sense of the word “Arab” would be like calling all people from English-speaking countries “Anglo”, which some Latinos/Hispanics do IIRC. We share a common language and cultural traits to a large degree, but we’re not necessarily the same people ethnically (especially in the case of the U.S., where I would bet most of us don’t have much, if any, English blood).
As a side note I’ve spoken with many Maronites who will call themselves Arabs, and in the next breath insist that they are not Arabs but Syriac, or more often simply Maronite (which amounts to a subgroup of Syriacs, after all). I’ve also spoken to many Palestinian Melkites who will make the same distinction, though obviously they don’t identify with the Maronite/Syriac identity.
Being from a Middle Eastern bloodline that is decidedly not Arab, nor associated with it, I’m sensitive to these kinds of things I guess.
Peace and God bless!
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mardukm
Guest
Wow! This sure generated some good conversation.
I was looking at Arab in the anthropological sense as the non-Jewish semitic race, which is very broad (which includes not only those of the Arabian peninsula, but peoples in the Levant).
Over time, the term Arab has, of course narrowed considerably in terms of culture, language, and geographic locus.
I guess it would be best for the OP to understand “Arab” in its most common application today, instead of its anthropological definition. Of course, he may get some brownie points in his paper for trying to go by the anthropological definition - the professor might complement him and say, “Wow! You did some deep research!”
Blessings,
Marduk
I was looking at Arab in the anthropological sense as the non-Jewish semitic race, which is very broad (which includes not only those of the Arabian peninsula, but peoples in the Levant).
Over time, the term Arab has, of course narrowed considerably in terms of culture, language, and geographic locus.
I guess it would be best for the OP to understand “Arab” in its most common application today, instead of its anthropological definition. Of course, he may get some brownie points in his paper for trying to go by the anthropological definition - the professor might complement him and say, “Wow! You did some deep research!”
Blessings,
Marduk
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Formosus
Guest
As I am not syriac or any middle eastern ethnicity I can not speak from the position of an insider, but I will say that I think its a bit backwards to call people who predate the Arab conquest as being Arabs. It would almost be like calling a Quebecois an Englishman.
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mardukm
Guest
Lebanese are anthropologically a non-Jewish semitic race. Thus, in some sense, they can be called Arabs.
Persians are anthropologically not semitic, but originate from north of the Levant (I’m half-persian
).Blessings,
Marduk
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Aramis
Guest
I was thinking much the same. Including the Quebecois. But likewise, an English speaking resident of Quebec of English descent is not really Quebecois.
It’s important to note that there are quite a few ethnic Arabs throughout the levant, but that most of them are descended from Muslim Arabs who came to spread Islam from Arabia to the rest of the Levant. But most of those Ethnic Arabs are still Muslim.
The spread of Islam also resulted in the spread of the Arabic language and culture, destroying the native culture, but not the native people.
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Formosus
Guest
I don’t quite get your distinction. In ancient and classical times, there were many non Arab, non Jewish semites. People like the akkadians, assyrians, cananites etc. I don’t understand why “Arab” applies to all these groups when Arabs are just one group of semites (and one that doesn’t appear as a major player in history until the 7th century at that).Lebanese are anthropologically a non-Jewish semitic race. Thus, in some sense, they can be called Arabs.
Persians are anthropologically not semitic, but originate from north of the Levant (I’m half-persian
Blessings,
Marduk
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mardukm
Guest
Anthropologically, all Semitic races trace their origin from the Arabian peninsula. So all Semitic races are, anthropologically speaking, “Arabs.” The first great distinction was the Jewish Semitic race. Their self-identification as a unique people of God distinguished them from all other Arabs (again, anthropologically speaking), which included, among others, the Canaanites and the Mesopotamians. Of course, anthropologists and historians have recognized and established other distinctions down through the history of the Semitic peoples that originated from the Arabian peninsula.
Blessings,
Marduk
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