Archangel Raphael: Can Angels Lie?

[Miserissima]

I was under the impression that angels cannot lie.

I was reading Tobit [Douay-Rheims] this week, and came across this:

1. 5:11 So going in he saluted him, and said: Joy be to thee always.
   5:12 And Tobias said: What manner of joy shall be to me, who sit in darkness, and see not the light of heaven?
   5:13 And the young man said to him: Be of good courage, thy cure from God is at hand. 5:14 And Tobias said to him: Canst thou conduct my son to Gabelus at Rages, a city of the Medes? and when thou shalt return, I will pay thee thy hire. 5:15 And the angel said to him: I will conduct him thither, and bring him back to thee.
2. 5:16 And Tobias said to him: I pray thee, tell me, of what family, or what tribe art thou? 12. 5:17 And Raphael the angel answered: Dost thou seek the family of him thou hirest, or the hired servant himself to go with thy son? 13. 5:18 But lest I should make thee uneasy, I am Azarias the son of the great Ananias. 14. 5:19 And Tobias answered: Thou art of a great family. But I pray thee be not angry that I desired to know thy family.

In my limited human understanding, I can see why Raphael didn’t give him true name, since he was on a “covert op.” However, he then gave backstory, claiming he was a relative of Tobit’s, “…the son of the great Ananias.” Raphael impersonated a human, lied about his name, and then lied about the tribe he was from. I’m confused as to how “good” angels can lie…can anyone help clarify this for me?

 

[jrsmith]

Ananias means “Yahweh is merciful”…and then in verse 14 Tobit mentions Nathaniah and Shemaiah, which mean “Yahweh gives” and “Yahweh hears”. And Azariah’s own name means “Yahweh helps”. It’s pretty obvious that we shouldn’t take this story as literally having happened…although i’m sure it may have been based on a true story…it was written as a religious novel, with many powerful truths contained within.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

This is a classic “entertaining angels unaware” kinda story - a very humorous story in my opinion. A “covert-op” as you say. Tobit had cried out to God for help and God sends him Raphael. If we were Hebrews reading this story in, well, Hebrew the humor would be obvious. Tongue-in-cheek humor, so-to-speak. Raphael wasn’t lying about his name so much as he wanted to reveal truths about God. So, Raphael uses names that mean: “Yahweh helps,” “Yahweh is merciful,” “Yahweh gives,” and “Yahweh hears.”

 

[dancny]

There are a few ways to look at this to me. Can angels lie? Well, Satan is a fallen angel who still maintains all of his angelic, or archangelic, powers. He is the father of lies, so i would say that, yes, angels can lie.

But let’s look at the story and at the lies. Had Raphael come up and told the whole truth, "Hi, I am the archangel Raphael who stands at the throne of God there would have been no faith action on the part of the players of the story. The lie was needed to allow them to work through with faith. Imagine the scene after the bed chamber, “Demon, nah, I’m not afraid. I got this angel traveling with me.” Instead they prayed all night and not only demonstrated their faith but grew in it also while sharing the experience and groing in their faith. So while he lied, he did not gain anything by it or hurt anyone by it. He did it to help the others grow, more than .likely at the urging of God.

Satan, on the other hand tells Eve that she can eat the fruit of the tree and she will not die, She did die spritually, get cast out of the garden and a spritual war was sparked. Raphael has no malicious intent while Satan has nothing but malicious intent.

So, is it okay for me to lie if I intend no harm? No. I do not have the power or the wisdom that an angel does. I do not have the authority or the mission of the angels. They are SUPERnatural beings who have the beatific vision while we do not and therefore see imperfectly, through a glass darkly.

I hope that helps.

 

[Miserissima]

:doh2:
Thank you! I had totally forgotten to think about reading this in the light of the common literary devices of the time!

 

[John7]

I was under the impression that angels cannot lie.

I’m confused as to how “good” angels can lie…can anyone help clarify this for me?

Also the spirit (I think he’s a good angel…ministering spirit ?) in 2 Chronicles 18 becomes a lying spirit for the LORD’s purposes (to entice Ahab)
19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

 

[Ron_Conte]

The story of Tobit is a true story, and should not be taken as a fictional device for teaching.

holy Angels cannot lie, because they have the Beatific Vision of God who is Truth.

The Angel was not lying about his name. The Angels all were created before humanity was created, and so their actual names (if we can even use the word) are not any words or letters in any human language. Thus, the Angels take on whatever names describe their purpose (Raphael: God heals) for a particular situation.

 

[ethereality]

The story of Tobit is a true story, and should not be taken as a fictional device for teaching.

Says who? My church gave me a “Catholic Youth Bible” with commentary stating it was fictional …

 

[TertiumKid]

Also the spirit (I think he’s a good angel…ministering spirit ?) in 2 Chronicles 18 becomes a lying spirit for the LORD’s purposes (to entice Ahab)
19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Quite interesting

 

[Mintaka]

That’s probably one of those things where the Bible is giving a literary explanation of how God allows demons to do mischief, like allowing the Devil to tempt Job or allowing Pharaoh’s heart to stay hard. If you do evil and thus reject God, God can always choose to remove His protection from you and let you take the consequences of your own actions and attitudes.

But I’m not really familiar with that part of the book, and I’ve never heard an explanation of it.

 

[PJM]

=Miserissima;5137468]I was under the impression that angels cannot lie.

I was reading Tobit [Douay-Rheims] this week, and came across this:

In my limited human understanding, I can see why Raphael didn’t give him true name, since he was on a “covert op.” However, he then gave backstory, claiming he was a relative of Tobit’s, “…the son of the great Ananias.” Raphael impersonated a human, lied about his name, and then lied about the tribe he was from. I’m confused as to how “good” angels can lie…can anyone help clarify this for me?

Outstanding question!:tiphat:
The short answer as you well know, to the OP question is yes!

**John 8:44 **“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

In Tobit 5: basically the introduction, Ra[hael claims to hve spent time with “our brother Gabral”. “Brother” here oviously refers to Kin, not blood related.

**Isaiah 55: 6 tells us that we are unable to comprehend the mind and Will of God. So there will be things we do not understand.

What we can understand is that Raphael was on a “Mission from God” not acting on his own iniative. He was “doing the direct Will God.”

In Tobit 12: 11"I will not conceal anything from you. I have said, ‘It is good to guard the secret of a king, but gloriously to reveal the works of God.’ 12 And so, when you and your daughter-in-law Sarah prayed, I brought a reminder of your prayer before the Holy One; and when you buried the dead, I was likewise present with you. 13 When you did not hesitate to rise and leave your dinner in order to go and lay out the dead, your good deed was not hidden from me, but I was with you. 14 So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

We find Raphael explaining who, what and why; all in response to God’s Divine command.

While this does not answer you’re excellent question, perhaps, because humanity hasGod-given freewill, this was necessary in order to accomplish the ends that God Willed?

It is also signifiant that the “lies” were not hurtful, but helpful in accomplishing Gods Plan.

So the question now becomes: “is a ruse necessarily a lie?” One can never do an evil that good will result from it, BUT was thus truly an evil? I think not:shrug:

Sin is not always “black and white” sometimes shades of grey steep in.

Love and prayer’s
Pat

 

[Disciple96]

I think we have to remember that apparently scholars today think the Tobit was a short story and not an account of an actual historical event. So the angel didn’t lie. The fictional angel of the story misrepresented himself.

But angels certainly do lie. Remember Satan and all his evil cohort. Do they lie? Oy, do they ever!

 

[Gregorios_Orige]

1. 5:11 So going in he saluted him, and said: Joy be to thee always.
   5:12 And Tobias said: What manner of joy shall be to me, who sit in darkness, and see not the light of heaven?
   5:13 And the young man said to him: Be of good courage, thy cure from God is at hand. 5:14 And Tobias said to him: Canst thou conduct my son to Gabelus at Rages, a city of the Medes? and when thou shalt return, I will pay thee thy hire. 5:15 And the angel said to him: I will conduct him thither, and bring him back to thee.
2. 5:16 And Tobias said to him: I pray thee, tell me, of what family, or what tribe art thou? 12. 5:17 And Raphael the angel answered: Dost thou seek the family of him thou hirest, or the hired servant himself to go with thy son? 13. 5:18 But lest I should make thee uneasy, I am Azarias the son of the great Ananias. 14. 5:19 And Tobias answered: Thou art of a great family. But I pray thee be not angry that I desired to know thy

It is obvious the Angels name are not fixed like humans do but their name changes according to their task given by God. We know Raphael (Rafa’el) which meant “God has healed for God sent the angel Raphael, disguised as a human, to heal Tobit and to free Sarah from the demon. However his name changes to Azarias meaning “Yahweh helps”. For he was with divine tasked to help Tobit and Tobias.
Now when the Angel Raphael said “I am Azarias the son of the great Ananias” He as an angel of God was expressing in a state as an angel not as a human although he appears as human. let us examine more in detail. “I am Azarias the son of the great Ananias”… meaning I am God’s help (Azarias means"Yahweh helps”) the son of the great (note he said great ) Merciful God (Ananias means “Yahweh is merciful”…). Clearly the Angel was talking divinely in angelic level as to his task " I am God’s help the son of the great Merciful God. "
No lies at all. The Angels were referred to in the OT as sons of God…Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD… No lies at all. Truly the Angel Raphael speaks the truth that he is truly Azarias or God’s help and truly the son of the great or say Almighty Merciful God or Ananias.

 

[Nelka]

Ananias means “Yahweh is merciful”…and then in verse 14 Tobit mentions Nathaniah and Shemaiah, which mean “Yahweh gives” and “Yahweh hears”. And Azariah’s own name means “Yahweh helps”. It’s pretty obvious that we shouldn’t take this story as literally having happened…although i’m sure it may have been based on a true story…it was written as a religious novel, with many powerful truths contained within.

Nice!

 

[TK421]

There isn’t a definitive teaching on this. The view held by Sts Augustine & Aquinas is that a deception can never be permissible. St Aquinas tries to reconcile this by saying that you can omit saying something, or say a technial truth that is still designed to led a person astray.

I’m perfectly content in the more straightforward explanation, which is: Yes, Raphael and Rahab are two clear-cut examples in scripture of somebody deceiving somebody without being guilty of sin. Even if Raphael said some kind of cryptic, convulated angelic truth in his words, the fact remains that the people were deceived by his words, which makes it a quintessensial deception.