Archbishop installs 4 married bishops

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If Rome did not give the mandate then they are all excommunicated. including the ordaining bishop. It is a real tragedy for the dispositions of their souls.

God Bless
 
OriginalJS said:
Color me dumb. (1) can a bishop be excommunicated? (2) if so, who can excommunicate a bishop? (2) who can ordain a bishop? (4) has a bishop been excommunicated for ordaining another bishop?
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Yes, a bishop can be excommunicated. Remember just a few months ago, a Chinese bishop was excommunicated just days after ordaining other “state approved” bishops in China. All men involved were excommunicated by Rome.

Mike
 
Thank you for responding to my earlier questions. Now, I have another. If the excommunicated bishop now purports to administer sacraments such as baptism, eucharist, and confirmation, are those sacraments valid? If not, how will the parishioners be cautioned?
 
This isn’t a schism of the same caliber as SSPX, this is more like PNCC (Polish National Catholic Church) if anything.
 
Not clear why they bothered to ordain (sub conditione) Stallings, who has already been validly ordained. They really don’t seem to care about the meaning of the ceremonies and terms they are throwing around, which I suppose accounts for their present position.
 
TimOliv said:
This isn’t a schism of the same caliber as SSPX, this is more like PNCC (Polish National Catholic Church) if anything.
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It’s of exactly the same caliber.

As I said before…schism is schism. You choose to validly ordain men to the episcopate without permission…it’s a schism.

It doesn’t matter if the reasons for doing so were completely little or large.
 
Caesar said:
Bishop Lefebrve held firm to the teachings of the Church, and many will argue that he did not go into schism.

This Archbishop on the other hand is blatantly violating a well-defined teaching of the Church.

But I do think many groups will be splitting off in the near future.
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If you mean obedience to the Church as a teaching, then yes, they are violating it. But celibate bishops are a discipline, not a teaching. If it was done with papal permission (which obviously it wasn’t), then it would be lawful. If not, then it is not lawful. What I am saying is not the same as, say, “ordaining” priestesses.
 
OriginalJS said:
Thank you for responding to my earlier questions. Now, I have another. If the excommunicated bishop now purports to administer sacraments such as baptism, eucharist, and confirmation, are those sacraments valid? If not, how will the parishioners be cautioned?
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I believe those Sacraments would be valid but illicit. Weddings and Confessions would be invalid since they require faculties from the local (licit) ordinary - the Bishop of the geographical diocese. The one exception being the Confession of a dying person.

In some cases, the Bishop issues a pastoral letter or announcement that a certain priest has been excommunicated and no longer has faculties within the diocese. It depends on where these “bishops” go and what they try to do.

They are bishops without sees so they don’t govern or shepard any priests or faithful. My guess is that the plan is for these bishops to go out and ordain a bunch of married priests as a way to pressure the Vatican over the celibacy issue. Bad plan but good for some media attention.
 
While we’re on the topic, I thought this would be interesting… Back in July, Archbishop Milingo was interviewed by National Catholic Reporter’s John Allen, for his Word From Rome column.
So you are not going to create or attach yourself to a rival to the Catholic church?
We have no ambition at all, in any way, to do anything of that kind.
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I have been impressed with how delicate [Moon’s followers] are with the Catholic church. I went fishing three times with Rev. Moon, and I was very surprised by the simplicity I’ve seen in that man. He speaks of living for others, and I’ve seen what he has done. What John XXIII talked about in Pacem in Terris, working for peace, this is what the Family Federation [for World Peace and Unification, Moon’s organization] is doing. They send ambassadors of peace to different places and so on.
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I’m also impressed with the priority they put on marriage. In our church, sometimes marriage is not valued. In Europe, they applaud homosexuality, and there are even nightclubs where people swap husbands and wives. The Synod on the Family produced a document, Familiaris Consortio, defending the family, and this is what Rev. Moon is saying.
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… I feel very strongly that I can be an intermediary to reconcile the Catholic church with Rev. Moon.
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IMO much of the church in the USA is in defacto schism. You should see what is taught and not in the parishes in my diocese. Milingo was just honest about it and Rome fiddles while the church collapses. To have waited this long - well JP2 did nothing and basically Benedict is doing nothing. They are afraid, IMO, of losing the money train from the European and American churches.
 
rien said:
IMO much of the church in the USA is in defacto schism. You should see what is taught and not in the parishes in my diocese. Milingo was just honest about it and Rome fiddles while the church collapses. To have waited this long - well JP2 did nothing and basically Benedict is doing nothing. They are afraid, IMO, of losing the money train from the European and American churches.
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Sorry to burst your bubble…but there has been no schism. No bishops other than the two mentioned in this thread have openly broken their eccelsiastical unity with the universal church.

Dissent and schism are two differet things.
 
Corki said:
  1. The article has a link back to Milingo’s own site “Married Priests Now”. It claims that there are 15,000 married priests just waiting to serve the Church. Where did these priests come from? Are they laicized priests? Or priests who left their ministries without going through the laicization process?
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Sounds like Bishop Milinog has gone off the deep end. George Stallings went off the deep end long ago.

But perhaps I can shed some light on the above. I’m not sure where this 15,000 figure came from, but way back in the late 1960’s there were thousands of young, many newly ordained, priests, who left the priesthood and married, without permission or waiting for laicization. Some (many? but I’m personally familiar with a few) of them petitioned the pope asking to resume their priestly ministry while remaining married. These were mostly Americans.

All those petitions were denied. It was a crazy time for awhile. Those involved would be near retirement age now, so what would be the point, even if married priests were allowed in the Latin Rite.
 
Sigh, Apostolic bloodline? Whatever. Milingo has nothing. Not the truth, nor any part of the Church. He will gather the fools to himself and even their best intentions will go awry. He and all his ilk have removed themselves from the Church, we need not worry, we have enough problems already.
 
Corki said:
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  1. While Bishop Milingo is a Roman Catholic bishop, the men he ordained aren’t even Roman Catholic. From the article, “The four men claim affiliation to the breakaway Synod of Old Catholic Churches.” While they might be validly ordained and have apostolic succession, wouldn’t it take more than that to make them members of the RCC? Since they are not RCC bishops, does this mean that the Pope does not have any authority to discipline them?
Is this the same Old Catholic Church you are referring to: www.oldcatholic.org?
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In this year we have had several excomunications, in Guatemala, an spanish priest that have begun his church and 800 members of it have been excommunicated
 
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