Archbishop Lefebrve on Luther's Mass

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GodIsSalvation said:
I must agree with latinmasslover to a point. Although I don’t see the SSPX as the true Church and I definitely don’t think that the Church is off the tracks or that the Seat of Peter is vacant, I think that we can all agree that the popes have been wrong before and will likely be wrong again.
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🙂 Thanks for the support, but there’s a slight misuderstanding: I never said the SSPX is the true Church or that the Seat is vacant. God Bless.
 
Your_Abbott said:
What a lot of nonsense. The Supreme Pontiff is just that - Supreme. Who is going to contest him.? How did Gregory come up with Gregorian Chant. Did we have such from the Apostles, or from the Old Testament Jews?

He is Pope. Tomorrow he can declare that the Mass is to be in koine Greet. Alpha, beta, gamma… We’d learn it cause we have too.

The Holy Father does not have power from the people. He doesn’t need their approbation. He can do what he wants cause he is the Vicar of Christ on earth. He makes the rules. His power comes from Jesus Christ.

"Even the pope can only be a humble servant of its lawful development and abiding integrity and identity. . " Hogwash. I see here people marking the great power of Cardinal Hogos - that man’s power is nil - it is dependent on the Holy Father. When the Pontiff speaks, we all listen, because he speaks with the authority of Jesus Christ. Trot out what books you want from conservative authors - they don’t matter a hill of beans.

Your Abbott
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Is this not the most clear post expressing Pope worship or what?! Study the teachings, bud.
 
Your_Abbott said:
You forget that the Pope is the Pope. (There is that tautology again). (I just love arguing agains the errancy of youth)

Your Abbott
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Then you should be better at it, you best argument turns the Pope into a god. Contrary to the example of your beloved Assisi meetings, we’re not pagans.

If only the youth were saying this, you’d have a point.

“Pride goeth befor the fall,” you’d do well to keep that in mind.
 
latinmasslover said:
Is this not the most clear post expressing Pope worship or what?!
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Then you should be better at it, you best argument turns the Pope into a god.
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No, it is definitely not worship of the Pope. Your accusation is akin to Protestants that accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary. Either you have no concept or the word “worship” or you are using the word way to loosely to the point of dishonesty. No one is endowinf the Pope with deity, ony divine guidance.
 
pnewton said:
No, it is definitely not worship of the Pope. Your accusation is akin to Protestants that accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary. Either you have no concept or the word “worship” or you are using the word way to loosely to the point of dishonesty. No one is endowinf the Pope with deity, ony divine guidance.
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Have you not read his posts? He gives the pope unlimited power…in the books of many, that’s turning someone into a god.:eek:
 
latinmasslover said:
Then you should be better at it, you best argument turns the Pope into a god. Contrary to the example of your beloved Assisi meetings, we’re not pagans.

If only the youth were saying this, you’d have a point.

“Pride goeth befor the fall,” you’d do well to keep that in mind.
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Your prayers are right. The harm that these extremists are inflicting on the Vicar of Christ, her Son, and on the Church is enormous. The Pope is a human like the rest of us, excepting of course, he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, and possesses special guidance in matters of faith and morals from the Holy Spirit.

What would Jesus do at Assisi? Would he exhibit the kind pride that you are exhibiting?
 
holdencaulfield said:
Sorry, I have to disagree with you. The Pope cannot just say anything he wants. He cannot contradict any previous Tradition.
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Of course, you mean tradition with a small ‘t’. There is nothing in rock about the Liturgy. It is not a matter of faith that the commuion is to be under one, or both species. Or they should ring bells at the ‘Sanctus’, or that the choir sing Gregorian Chant, or say Mass in some unintelligible tongue, or face East, or any of that, including Communion in the hand or on the tongue.

Any and all of this ‘tradition’ can be changed. The Pope is not held to it, and he can change the whole of Canon Law immediately. The power to do so is given to him. And he can call a General Council tomorrow and declare all SSPX heretics, if he so desires. He is the Pope, man. That is what all Papists believe.
 
“Principal minister?”

Holden, the priest will be, with you, facing the Lord. Praise God!
 
Derbingo said:
It will be quiet and unintelligible. And the principal minister will have his back to you.
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It will be serene and peaceful, a perfect environment for prayer. And the priest will be leading you in prayer, facing the cross in unison with the congregation.
 
Derbingo said:
Your prayers are right. The harm that these extremists are inflicting on the Vicar of Christ, her Son, and on the Church is enormous. The Pope is a human like the rest of us, excepting of course, he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, and possesses special guidance in matters of faith and morals from the Holy Spirit.
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So, there’s no guarantee that he will follow Him in everything he says and does.
What would Jesus do at Assisi? Would he exhibit the kind pride that you are exhibiting?
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I wasn’t aware that Jesus told the Gentiles it was okay to praise Hecate.
And what pride are you referring to? I wasn’t aware that putting God before all else was a form of pride…Maybe Lucifer was onto something…:rolleyes: with the beloved new ecumenism, let’s consider his point of view. Jus because he’s not with God, doesn’t mean he’s against Him.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
GerardP said:
I don’t know if anyone is actually going to try and refute the archbishop’s words. More likely it will be a pile on LeFebvre.

But, that is a really powerful and concise analysis. It might be too much for some people to face.
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We are not to judge the Archbishop. God already did. But he was disobedient; how could he have been ‘Catholic’.
He did not profess ‘credo…in unam, sanctam, catholicam, apostolicam ecclesiam’. He died outside the Catholic Church, outside the Mystical Body of Christ. God have mercy on him for the havoc he wrecked on the Church.
 
Derbingo said:
We are not to judge the Archbishop. God already did. But he was disobedient; how could he have been ‘Catholic’.
He did not profess ‘credo…in unam, sanctam, catholicam, apostolicam ecclesiam’. He died outside the Catholic Church, outside the Mystical Body of Christ. God have mercy on him for the havoc he wrecked on the Church.
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Remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church damns someone?

St. Joan of Arc died excommunicated for not submitting to her bishop. St. Athanasius was unjustly excommunicated, what if he died? You believe he’d be damned?

Besides, using the words “schismatic” and “heretic” are not in line with the Vatican II mentality.
 
latinmasslover said:
Have you not read his posts? He gives the pope unlimited power…in the books of many, that’s turning someone into a god.:eek:
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No, he is not suggesting the pope has unlimited power. That is just nuts. Absolute authority in a certain area or areas is not the same as omnipotence. If he truly had absolute power he probably would have zapped Lebevre into next century for his imputence.
 
latinmasslover said:
Remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church damns someone?

St. Joan of Arc died excommunicated for not submitting to her bishop. St. Athanasius was unjustly excommunicated, what if he died? You believe he’d be damned?

Besides, using the words “schismatic” and “heretic” are not in line with the Vatican II mentality.
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The Archbishop is not Joan of Arc. He was flagrantly disobedient to the Pope and to the Church. He was excommunicated. He put himself outside of the Mystical Body of Christ. He formed his own hierarchy, and his own church. He was more like Martin Luther than Joan of Arc.

Your Abbott
 
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