Archbishop Lefebrve on Luther's Mass

[Lazerlike42]

Never be afraid to quote from Vat 2.

I’m not afraid to. I’m dealing with a traditional crowd here, many of whom may not accept it’s authority, and so I’m quoting from pre-Vatican II sources to establish that the teaching found in Lumen Gentium #25 existed prior to the 1960s.

This is merely an act of charity and humility. I could assert myself as superior because I accept Vatican II, whereas they do not, and leave them to deal with their rejection of it on their own. But instead, I choose to try to bring them to the fullness of truth that is found in accepting all of the teachings of Holy Church. It’s an act of ecumenism, the same sort of ecumenism that you just a few posts ago criticized me for rejecting!

Abbott, I think you may be rejecting the principles of ecumenism of Vatican II. I’m trying to evangelize here with some people who may not accept the fullness of Catholic truth, and you at least seem to be implying that it would be best to ignore any dialogue here and simply assert the authority of the Church. This is just as silly as trying to evangelize a Protestant by quoting the Council of Trent, and just as ineffective as when Protestant street evangelists try to convert atheists just by telling them that the Bible says they’re going to be damned.

I am trying to fully embrace the method of St. Paul, to become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. If I can bring a Catholic who isn’t accepting the Church’s teachings back into the fold by quoting Pius IX, you bet I’m going to do that. Anything less would be to assert an egotistical pride in the Church over the Church’s mission to evangelize the world and to bring lost sheep back into the fold.

Peace and God bless

 

[bear06]

Never be afraid to quote from Vat 2.

He’s not afraid. He’s smart! I

t does no good to quote VII when the folks put their fingers in their ears and say “I don’t have to listen - it’s Vatican II”. They have a lot more trouble saying they don’t have to listen when it is quoted from something they say they cling to wholeheartedly.

Again, why would anyone have a problem quoting from pre-Vatican II teachings?

 

[bear06]

I’m not afraid to. I’m dealing with a traditional crowd here, many of whom may not accept it’s authority, and so I’m quoting from pre-Vatican II sources to establish that the teaching found in Lumen Gentium #25 existed prior to the 1960s.

This is merely an act of charity and humility. I could assert myself as superior because I accept Vatican II, whereas they do not, and leave them to deal with their rejection of it on their own. But instead, I choose to try to bring them to the fullness of truth that is found in accepting all of the teachings of Holy Church. It’s an act of ecumenism, the same sort of ecumenism that you just a few posts ago criticized me for rejecting!

Abbott, I think you may be rejecting the principles of ecumenism of Vatican II. I’m trying to evangelize here with some people who may not accept the fullness of Catholic truth, and you at least seem to be implying that it would be best to ignore any dialogue here and simply assert the authority of the Church. This is just as silly as trying to evangelize a Protestant by quoting the Council of Trent, and just as ineffective as when Protestant street evangelists try to convert atheists just by telling them that the Bible says they’re going to be damned.

I am trying to fully embrace the method of St. Paul, to become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. If I can bring a Catholic who isn’t accepting the Church’s teachings back into the fold by quoting Pius IX, you bet I’m going to do that. Anything less would be to assert an egotistical pride in the Church over the Church’s mission to evangelize the world and to bring lost sheep back into the fold.

Peace and God bless

 

[pnewton]

He’s not afraid. He’s smart! I

Perhaps when the adolescent who has been plaguing this site grow up, he will understand the wisdom of listening more and speaking less.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Wow! After being absent from these forums for a couple of days, trying to catch up has made my head spin. I just want to ask one question though. Has anyone noticed that YourAbbott, Derbingo, and Dioscorus all sound exactly the same and that they have all registered in the last couple of days? They use the same words, and make the same arguments over and over and over again (“Latin is untelligible,” “priest with his back to the people,” “pope has “god-like” abilities,” etc.) and a different one will even respond to you when you were actually talking to a another one of the three. Even more ironic is the fact that YourAbbott has several times accused other folks of making multiple profiles. Me think he is really the one doing this.

 

[Freshman88]

Wow! After being absent from these forums for a couple of days, trying to catch up has made my head spin. I just want to ask one question though. Has anyone noticed that YourAbbott, Derbingo, and Diosconus all sound exactly the same and that they have all registered in the last couple of days? They use the same words, and make the same remarks over and over and over again, and a different one will even respond to you when you were actually talking to a another one of the three. Even more ironic is the fact that YourAbbott has several times accused other folks of making multiple profiles. Me think he is really the one doing this.

I have similar thoughts - but that would be such a childish thing to do, and I really don’t understand why anyone would do that.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I have similar thoughts - but that would be such a childish thing to do, and I really don’t understand why anyone would do that.

I don’t either, but then again, there are stranger people out there.

 

[Dioscorus]

I have similar thoughts - but that would be such a childish thing to do, and I really don’t understand why anyone would do that.

Great minds run in similar paths.

It is so obvious that SSPX people are always running off at the mouth at people. Stick to the issues, and stop trying to knock people off with extraneous nonsense. This is a constant complaint of SSPX - they are outside the Church, and they won’t do what they are supposed to do to get back in. Now that you are on notice that you can’t proselytize, you have to try a different track. Character assassination apparently is now your alternative approach. SSPX people are great at creating faux ID’s. They should own up to their own tactics. Now let’s get back to comparing the heretic with the schismatic.

 

[stmaria]

It was pretty obvious what he was doing. He was trying to crush the spirit of ecumenism of Vatican 2. Nowadays, around here, you have to be suspicious of anyone knocking Vatican 2, and that ‘it didn’t define anything’ nonsense. It’s a tip-off who they are -by their speech you will know them.

Cardinal Ratzinger
"The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and **yet many treat it **as though it had made itself into **a sort of superdogma **which takes away the importance of all the rest. "

 

[Dioscorus]

Cardinal Ratzinger
"The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and **yet many treat it **as though it had made itself into **a sort of superdogma **which takes away the importance of all the rest. "

Vatican 2 is a great teaching Council. It taught us that Ecumenism is an obligation of the Roman Catholic Church, to fill the wishes of Jesus Christ - That all may be one.

PS I see that you claim that you are not an SSPX, but you take the first tack of the SSPX, that you should attack Vatican 2

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFidelis View Post
Wow! After being absent from these forums for a couple of days, trying to catch up has made my head spin. I just want to ask one question though. Has anyone noticed that YourAbbott, Derbingo, and Diosconus all sound exactly the same and that they have all registered in the last couple of days? They use the same words, and make the same remarks over and over and over again, and a different one will even respond to you when you were actually talking to a another one of the three. Even more ironic is the fact that YourAbbott has several times accused other folks of making multiple profiles. Me think he is really the one doing this.

I have similar thoughts - but that would be such a childish thing to do, and I really don’t understand why anyone would do that.

---

I’ve been wondering the same.

 

[Dioscorus]

Wow! After being absent from these forums for a couple of days, trying to catch up has made my head spin. I just want to ask one question though. Has anyone noticed that YourAbbott, Derbingo, and Dioscorus all sound exactly the same and that they have all registered in the last couple of days? They use the same words, and make the same arguments over and over and over again (“Latin is untelligible,” “priest with his back to the people,” “pope has “god-like” abilities,” etc.) and a different one will even respond to you when you were actually talking to a another one of the three. Even more ironic is the fact that YourAbbott has several times accused other folks of making multiple profiles. Me think he is really the one doing this.

I don’t think any of these people would say ‘untelligible’, when the word is ‘unintelligible’. And I never said anything about ‘pope has god-like’ qualities. Can you quote a source of this? “Priest with his back to the people” - how about ‘the priest is oriented to the sun’. as I would say, or “Face Mecca” like the Moslems, as I would state.

Welcome back! You have spent your time on some of your SSPX faux identities. You’re not kidding anyone by accusing them of doing what you are so expert at.

BTW, where is SFD - who is he today?

 

[Freshman88]

Great minds run in similar paths.

It is so obvious that SSPX people are always running off at the mouth at people. Stick to the issues, and stop trying to knock people off with extraneous nonsense. This is a constant complaint of SSPX - they are outside the Church, and they won’t do what they are supposed to do to get back in. Now that you are on notice that you can’t proselytize, you have to try a different track. Character assassination apparently is now your alternative approach. SSPX people are great at creating faux ID’s. They should own up to their own tactics. Now let’s get back to comparing the heretic with the schismatic.

1. reread my post - I expressed that it was unlikely and unreasonable to have multiple accounts.
2. I am not SSPX, I have never set foot in one of their chapels.

 

[Freshman88]

how about ‘the priest is oriented to the sun’. as I would say, or “Face Mecca” like the Moslems, as I would state.

You realize that the Church had been facing East well before the advent of Islam. You realize that this is an authentic tradition of the Church. You realize that you are identifying a noble and holy tradition with infidels? Do you realize that the Orthodox also face east?

You do understand why we face East ?

 

[Freshman88]

Dio, you’ve been here 1 day … barely.
you have 9 posts, all in traditionalist forum.
You now accuse someone of having mutliple names - yet you haven’t been here for 24hrs.

You have attacked ad orientem, latin and altar rails.

What gives?

Are you here for a fight?

 

[pnewton]

PS I see that you claim that you are not an SSPX, but you take the first tack of the SSPX, that you should attack Vatican 2

That would have been Cardinal Ratzinger. All she did was quote he who is now our Holy Father.

 

[SFD]

BTW, where is SFD - who is he today?

Dioscorsus,

I have other things to do which are actually duties according to my state in life. Unless you can back up what you’ve said I suggest you retract it (Btw, I know for a fact it is false).

SFD

 

[Dioscorus]

Dioscorsus,

I have other things to do which are actually duties according to my state in life. Unless you can back up what you’ve said I suggest you retract it (Btw, I know for a fact it is false).

SFD

We all have other things to do.

I was dragged into an argument. I have no place there. I don’t even know who these people are. I am a Coptic Catholic, which is a schismatic church from the Coptic Orthodox Church. We are uniates - in union with Rome. I attend St. Mary’s Coptic Church in Los Angeles. I have been smeared, and I am unhappy about it.
Go back to doing what you are doing, and I will too. Leave me out of it.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Cardinal Ratzinger
"The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and **yet many treat it **as though it had made itself into **a sort of superdogma **which takes away the importance of all the rest. "

It is arguable that the Council did not define any dogma, that is, infallible teachings. However, it clearly spoke definitively on at least a doctrinal level on some matters, which means that it is not merely a pastoral council.

In any case, regardless of whether it was intended to be dogmatic or not, when the Council teaches on some matter of faith or morals, we as Catholics are bound to accept it, even if it is not taught on an infallible level. We are not free to dissent from it, but owe at least religious submission of mind and will, according to both the code of canon law and pre-Vatican II Church teaching. According to Pius VI, Pius IX, Vatican I, and Gregory XVI (among many others), the Council is binding on us and infallible insofar as that it cannot present any pastoral discipline which is harmful to the faithful.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Dioscorus]

Dio, you’ve been here 1 day … barely.
you have 9 posts, all in traditionalist forum.
You now accuse someone of having mutliple names - yet you haven’t been here for 24hrs.

You have attacked ad orientem, latin and altar rails.

What gives?

Are you here for a fight?

Have you ever had a fight with an Egyptian? One whose own culture considers him a religious schismatic? If you want a fight, I can give you one. I am considered a schismatic, so I am used to the battle.