Archbishop Lefebvre canonized

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latinmasslover

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This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
Boy, you must really like to open up cans of worms! I imagine that most here would simply ignore such a momentous event.
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
I think it would be nice.
 
I was expecting it to occur right after Martin Luther and John Calvin.
 
Maybe after the rapprochement of the SSPX and any other Trad-but-relationship-seems-slightly-iffy groups with the Holy See? 🤷
 
I would receive it like any other canonization–it’s always a joyous occasions to know a soul is among the blessed . Although, if he were, I don’t see myself having any kind of special devotion to him (as is the case with most saints).
 
I would probably think of him the same way as the Anti-pope turned saint Hippolytus - I am free to condemn his schismatic act while at the same time rejoicing that God gave him the gift of reconciliation and perseverance toward the (or at the very -) end. The hurdle that lies in the Abp.'s way, though, is that he died outside of communion, seemingly unrepentant of his actions, whereas Hippolytus was reconciled to the pope before they suffered martyrdom. That makes a life of heroic virtue harder to substantiate. If, though, the Church decides at some later point that he was, indeed, justified, then She is right, and I am wrong.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
I would probably think of him the same way as the Anti-pope turned saint Hippolytus - I am free to condemn his schismatic act while at the same time rejoicing that God gave him the gift of reconciliation and perseverance toward the (or at the very -) end. The hurdle that lies in the Abp.'s way, though, is that he died outside of communion, seemingly unrepentant of his actions, whereas Hippolytus was reconciled to the pope before they suffered martyrdom. That makes a life of heroic virtue harder to substantiate. If, though, the Church decides at some later point that he was, indeed, justified, then She is right, and I am wrong.
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In all the annals of sainthood the only case that I know of that seems analogous would be St Joan of Arc, who also died excommunicate and unrepentant to the end. Mind you, the Bishop who pronounced the sentence was declared corrupt during her ‘rehabilitation’ process, about 20 years after her death. I doubt any would dare to claim the same on behalf of the late Pope John Paul 2.

What it boils down to is that excommunications aren’t always and invariably infallible pronouncements, I guess. 🤷
 
I seriously don’t think there is any chance of Archbishop Lefebvre being canonized. I think he made a huge mistake when he consecrated those bishops, among other things. However, he also confirmed me, and if he should ever be canonized, I’ll certainly be happy that he is numbered among the saints.
 
If such a thing were to happen. It would generations in the future. In fact I would say if it were to happen, all living memory of those who might have a living memory of those that may have a living memory of the people who may have actually been alive at the time when the SSPX returned to full communion, would have to have long since died.

Frankly, I believe the question is moot. Or at least unanswerable. He did die in a state of excommunication.
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
I’m sure it’ll be far different from how some radical traditionalists reacted when Msgr. Escriva was canonized.

I, for one, recognize that canonization has long been held to be infallible. I don’t question it because of how I personally feel about the person. If he is canonized, he is a saint plain and simple.

Like others, I don’t think it’ll happen but it would be cause to rejoice if it did.
 
I believe that the Archbishop was mistaken in how he handled his disagreement with the Holy See. I would not attend a SSPX Mass. I have, however, read his biograpy and some of his writings, and I believe he was devoted to the Church. If the excommunication is lifted, I will be HAPPY! 😃 The issue of his disobedience to me revolves around motive. I believe the Archbishop acted in accord with his conscience. If Pope JP II was mistaken in proclaiming the excommunication, then God will reveal that at some point and the excommunication will be lifted. If this clears the way of canonization, we ought to all rejoice. Anytime the Church recognizes the reality of a soul’s entrance into Heaven, it is a time of great joy. Don’t think that those of us who are not supportive of the SSPX have any personal animosity toward it or any of its members. As a Novus Ordo adherent, I can tell you I have been subject to some really negative comments from some SSPX followers. I suppose it goes both ways. Canonization will mean that both sides need to reconcile. Canonization will only be a good thing. Who wouldn’t want to see the Archbishop in heaven? And only God knows if he is already there! God bless you.
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
A question that’s far more important is:

Is it possible for someone’s soul to be canonized if they passed from this Earth in a state of excommunication? How does that relate/compare to one dying while in a state of mortal sin (maybe they are in such a state?) for which there is no second chance?

Another good one would be:

Has anyone been canonized who died while in a state of excommunication?

Finally:

If dying while in a state of excommunication is completely different than dying while in mortal sin, could the excommunication be posthumously lifted?
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
LOL HE’LL NEVER BE CANONIZED—HIS GROSS DISOBEDIENCE, TO ME , SHOWS THAT HE WAS MORE DEVOTED TO HIMSELF THAN HE WAS TO THE CHURCH AND OUR LORD----IF HE WAS DEVOTED TO OUR LORD HE WOULD HAVE OBEYED THE HOLY FATHER!!!
 
latinmasslover said:
This question is for all, but especially those who oppose the SSPX.

What will your reaction be when Archbishop Lefebvre is canonized?

Let me restate: What would your reaction be if he were to be canonized?
Click to expand...
Your question reminds me of one of the final scenes in The Untouchables:

REPORTER: They say the 18th Amendment is going to be repealed, Mr. Ness. What are you going to do then?

ELLIOTT NESS: I guess I’ll have a drink.

If and when he is canonized, I guess I’ll say a prayer to him. Until then, well, things will stay as they are. 🙂
 
NoSweat said:
A question that’s far more important is:

Is it possible for someone’s soul to be canonized if they passed from this Earth in a state of excommunication? How does that relate/compare to one dying while in a state of mortal sin (maybe they are in such a state?) for which there is no second chance?

Another good one would be:

Has anyone been canonized who died while in a state of excommunication?

Finally:

If dying while in a state of excommunication is completely different than dying while in mortal sin, could the excommunication be posthumously lifted?
Click to expand...
👋 umm … hello … as I mentioned earlier, St Joan of Arc died excommunicate (in fact she was executed as a witch and a heretic).

Doubts were cast afterwards on the validity of the excommunication due to the character of the Bishop doing the excommunicating (in other words it was basically a political trial done by a Bishop who sympathised with Joan’s English opponents whose butts she was whupping in battle).

I doubt that similar could be done in the case of Abp Lefebvre, but it shows that one can die excommunicated and still be canonised at any rate.
 
knightbvm said:
LOL HE’LL NEVER BE CANONIZED—HIS GROSS DISOBEDIENCE, TO ME , SHOWS THAT HE WAS MORE DEVOTED TO HIMSELF THAN HE WAS TO THE CHURCH AND OUR LORD----IF HE WAS DEVOTED TO OUR LORD HE WOULD HAVE OBEYED THE HOLY FATHER!!!
Click to expand...
That’s not really an answer to his question.
 
knightbvm said:
LOL HE’LL NEVER BE CANONIZED—HIS GROSS DISOBEDIENCE, TO ME , SHOWS THAT HE WAS MORE DEVOTED TO HIMSELF THAN HE WAS TO THE CHURCH AND OUR LORD----IF HE WAS DEVOTED TO OUR LORD HE WOULD HAVE OBEYED THE HOLY FATHER!!!
Click to expand...
This is a comment the shouts “I know nothing of the situation!” Reminds me of a sedevacantist who declares all non Catholics damned because they’re not Catholic. Try reading the actual writings of Archbishop Lefebvre, and you will see that he is not full of himself, he did what he felt necessary to do (whether or not you agree).
One could easily argue that Joan of Arc could never have been canonized because she refused to submit to the Church regarding her Visions and she publicly called down the judgment of God on the Bishop.

Back to my question, (when) if the Church were to declare the excommunication null, and canonize the good Archbishop, what would your response be?
 
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