Archbishop of Canterbury Accepts Marian Apparitions at Lourdes, and the Immaculate Conception

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In a remarkable sermon during his visit to Lourdes, Archbishop Rowan Williams accepted the veracity of the apparitions in which the Virgin Mary appeared to a 14-year-old girl 18 times in 1858.

This is also an implicit acceptance of the Catholic Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which the Virgin Mary confirmed, identifying herself as “the Immaculate Conception”:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...n-leader-accept-visions-Virgin-Mary-fact.html

I wonder what Anglicans here make of this?
 
While I’m particularly and personally pleased, I wouldn’t place too much stock in his sermon affecting anyone. Don’t forget, a few months ago he called for Islamic Sharia law to be integrated into the British legal system. I think he is just a leader who tries to please everyone, and so leads people nowhere.

<><
 
now if we can only get the Anglicans to embrace traditionaly Judeo-Christian moral teaching we will really have something going.
 
puzzleannie said:
now if we can only get the Anglicans to embrace traditionaly Judeo-Christian moral teaching we will really have something going.
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It is arrogant ignorance like the above statement, that makes it hard for some people to embrace the Catholic Church.

Peace!
 
I believe the serious differences of opinion among Anglican leadership on said matters of tradional morality are well documented and frequently commented upon on these boards, most especially by our Anglican members who lament those quarrels.
 
Muzhik said:
While I’m particularly and personally pleased, I wouldn’t place too much stock in his sermon affecting anyone. Don’t forget, a few months ago he called for Islamic Sharia law to be integrated into the British legal system. I think he is just a leader who tries to please everyone, and so leads people nowhere.

<><
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To be fair, most Brits don’t seem to think very much of him - and yes, he does seem to want to please everyone - there was a quite a public outcry when he suggested we should incorporate Sharia law into UK law, and it even received objections by many Muslims! There was and is also much controversy over the support he has given to civil partnerships (clergy and lay people).

It is becoming more apparent that the sad case is that the Church of England are drifting further away from reconciliation with the Catholic Church rather than towards it.

We have many married deacons that are ex C of E, in the CC here in England - I think as a result of the direction the C of E has taken over the last few years.

I wonder if this sermon re Lourdes has anything at all to do with the news that the Government are discussing removing the catholic ban on the monarchy? Maybe he is exploring the concept that the traditional head of the C of E may one day be Catholic!!! That could mean his boss might be Catholic!!! Just testing the water with not just one big toe, but the whole foot! Where does that then leave their gay civil partnership (married?) male priests and their female priests?

🤷
 
Dauphin said:
In a remarkable sermon during his visit to Lourdes, Archbishop Rowan Williams accepted the veracity of the apparitions in which the Virgin Mary appeared to a 14-year-old girl 18 times in 1858.

This is also an implicit acceptance of the Catholic Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which the Virgin Mary confirmed, identifying herself as “the Immaculate Conception”:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...n-leader-accept-visions-Virgin-Mary-fact.html

I wonder what Anglicans here make of this?
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+Rowan gets one right.

Bound to happen.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
puzzleannie said:
I believe the serious differences of opinion among Anglican leadership on said matters of tradional morality are well documented and frequently commented upon on these boards, most especially by our Anglican members who lament those quarrels.
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Sure. And I may be arrogant (not my call), but if I’m ignorant, I’m ignorant of that fact.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus, Anglicanus Catholicus
 
The more I read on this guy, the more my impression of him changes. I think that deep down, he wants his church to grow and prosper. I am sure that he is a man of faith, and a man of some intellegence. I get the feeling that instead of trusting God and holding fast the orthodox rope, he feels that by placating groups they will prosper. It is like he is bailing out the boat as the waves come in fast instead of taking the boat to calmer waters.

I may be off on this, but that is how I feel.
 
ralphinal said:
The more I read on this guy, the more my impression of him changes. I think that deep down, he wants his church to grow and prosper. I am sure that he is a man of faith, and a man of some intellegence. I get the feeling that instead of trusting God and holding fast the orthodox rope, he feels that by placating groups they will prosper. It is like he is bailing out the boat as the waves come in fast instead of taking the boat to calmer waters.

I may be off on this, but that is how I feel.
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My fiancee is Episcopalian, and through my experience of the church, I love the atmosphere of social justice and placing, what seems to me, real emphasis on Christian mission- Matthew 25 (the primary objective of the Anglicans is supporting the UN Millenium Development Goals). It’s a wonderful Communion, from what I’ve seen.

It’s a shame Christianity has to be so divided, when such drastic measures need to be taken against poverty, environmental degradation, etc.
 
Dauphin said:
In a remarkable sermon during his visit to Lourdes, Archbishop Rowan Williams accepted the veracity of the apparitions in which the Virgin Mary appeared to a 14-year-old girl 18 times in 1858.

This is also an implicit acceptance of the Catholic Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which the Virgin Mary confirmed, identifying herself as “the Immaculate Conception”:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...n-leader-accept-visions-Virgin-Mary-fact.html

I wonder what Anglicans here make of this?
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British newspapers almost never get religious news right. I don’t understand why folks on this board refuse to see this, given how often Catholicism is misrepresented in the media.

Nothing I can see about Williams’ remarks implies an acceptance of the IC. I presume that any theologically, philosophically, and psychologically nuanced understanding of private visions is going to recognize that these visions always come shaped by one’s theological preconceptions. Saying that Bernadette experienced the Virgin Mary in some way does not mean that everything Bernadette said she heard or saw is divine revelation.

The particularly ludicrous claim in the article is that “praising the lives of the saints” is a peculiarly Catholic practice.

Apparently whoever wrote this article hasn’t looked into their copy of the Book of Common Prayer lately!

Edwin
 
Suzle said:
To be fair, most Brits don’t seem to think very much of him - and yes, he does seem to want to please everyone - there was a quite a public outcry when he suggested we should incorporate Sharia law into UK law, and it even received objections by many Muslims!
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Did you read his actual speech? Do you understand what he was saying in context? Did you note that he also gave examples of how his proposals would apply to Catholics?

++Williams gets misrepresented even more often than Pope +++Benedict, if possible.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Did you read his actual speech? Do you understand what he was saying in context? Did you note that he also gave examples of how his proposals would apply to Catholics?

++Williams gets misrepresented even more often than Pope +++Benedict, if possible.

Edwin
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To be honest, no I didn’t read the speech, I was just making a comment on the way many people in the UK see the C of E leadership. I am catholic, and have several C of E friends, and also many non religious friends. I am in fact a convert from the C of E.

Lots of people here couldn’t care less about the C of E, and many C of E’s don’t like the way that their church has become more liberal, prefering the more conservative catholic beliefs.

The whole impression on the public, and those not so well read as you obviously are ( and I am being sincere, please do not take my words as flippancy) is that they are out of touch with ordinary people, and those that they are supposedly in touch with, they have to a certain extent alienated in some bizarre attempt to be “PC”.

Of course the British Press misrepresent, misquote and very often blatantantly mislead, but then the damage is done, and the Church often do not help their cause when they cannot agree and present a united doctrine on important matters, such as women bishops, and gay marriages within the church and clergy.

At least that is the way I, and many of my friends, in our humble and uneducated lay person opinion see things.

Sorry - but there it is - pure opinion, albeit flawed, and wrong no doubt, but there you go

🤷
 
Dauphin said:
In a remarkable sermon during his visit to Lourdes, Archbishop Rowan Williams accepted the veracity of the apparitions in which the Virgin Mary appeared to a 14-year-old girl 18 times in 1858.

This is also an implicit acceptance of the Catholic Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which the Virgin Mary confirmed, identifying herself as “the Immaculate Conception”:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...n-leader-accept-visions-Virgin-Mary-fact.html

I wonder what Anglicans here make of this?
Click to expand...
And what’s wrong with this? Nothing, but someone will find something wrong with it.
 
Roamin_Xian said:
My fiancee is Episcopalian, and through my experience of the church, I love the atmosphere of social justice and placing, what seems to me, real emphasis on Christian mission- Matthew 25 (the primary objective of the Anglicans is supporting the UN Millenium Development Goals). It’s a wonderful Communion, from what I’ve seen.

It’s a shame Christianity has to be so divided, when such drastic measures need to be taken against poverty, environmental degradation, etc.
Click to expand...
Have you attended a U2charist for MDGs?

youtube.com/watch?v=5P9HC-6q45I&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=EDuEUsp5CDc&feature=related

God Bless!
 
Did you notice the reaction of the “good” protestants who were so offended by his sermon:

"Afterwards he was severely criticised by the Protestant Truth Society, a group of Anglicans and nonconformists committed to upholding the ideals of the Protestant Reformation.

*The Rev Jeremy Brooks, director of ministry for the group, said: *'All true Protestants will be appalled that the Archbishop of Canterbury has visited Lourdes, and preached there."

*"‘Lourdes represents everything about Roman Catholicism that the Protestant Reformation ejected, including apparitions, mariolatry and the veneration of saints. *
*
‘The archbishop’s simple presence there is a wholesale compromise, and * his sermon which included a reference to Mary as “the Mother of God” is a complete denial of Protestant orthodoxy.’"

"He added: ‘At a time when our country is crying out for clear Biblical leadership, it is nothing short of tragic that our supposedly Protestant archbishop is behaving as little more than a papal puppet.’"

So the archbishop is “behaving as little more than a papal puppet” when he shows dignified respect for the Blessed Mother of Jesus and referring to Mary as “the Mother of God” is distasteful to protestant leaders???

My God, can there be any salvation in a denomination that is offended by the Mother of God??? Does Jesus hear the prayers of those who refuse dignified respect for His own Mother whom he made as a participant in the salvation of the world?

“All generations shall call me blessed.” I guess the Blessed Mother didn’t have protestants in mind when she said that.
 
Timothysis said:
Did you notice the reaction of the “good” protestants who were so offended by his sermon:

"Afterwards he was severely criticised by the Protestant Truth Society, a group of Anglicans and nonconformists committed to upholding the ideals of the Protestant Reformation.

*The Rev Jeremy Brooks, director of ministry for the group, said: *'All true Protestants will be appalled that the Archbishop of Canterbury has visited Lourdes, and preached there."

*"‘Lourdes represents everything about Roman Catholicism that the Protestant Reformation ejected, including apparitions, mariolatry and the veneration of saints. *
*
‘The archbishop’s simple presence there is a wholesale compromise, and * his sermon which included a reference to Mary as “the Mother of God” is a complete denial of Protestant orthodoxy.’"

"He added: ‘At a time when our country is crying out for clear Biblical leadership, it is nothing short of tragic that our supposedly Protestant archbishop is behaving as little more than a papal puppet.’"

So the archbishop is “behaving as little more than a papal puppet” when he shows dignified respect for the Blessed Mother of Jesus and referring to Mary as “the Mother of God” is distasteful to protestant leaders???

My God, can there be any salvation in a denomination that is offended by the Mother of God??? Does Jesus hear the prayers of those who refuse dignified respect for His own Mother whom he made as a participant in the salvation of the world?

“All generations shall call me blessed.” I guess the Blessed Mother didn’t have protestants in mind when she said that.
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Fascinating quotes, Timothy! It’s so interesting the way the protestants call the Archbishop of Canterbury a protestant bishop and feel like he’s a collegue when Anglicans claim to be a British variant of Catholicism. It makes one wonder why protestant collegues and cohorts would consider his act of piety toward the BVM a betrayal if Anglicans like Rowan are already supposedly “Catholic?” I think it goes to show Anglicans are not British Catholics as some high church folks claim. I think it is dreadfully telling when protestants jump on this guy for reaching out to the Blessed Virgin…diabolical contempt for the Mother of God, weird.
 
Timothysis said:
Did you notice the reaction of the “good” protestants who were so offended by his sermon:

"Afterwards he was severely criticised by the Protestant Truth Society, a group of Anglicans and nonconformists committed to upholding the ideals of the Protestant Reformation.

*The Rev Jeremy Brooks, director of ministry for the group, said: *'All true Protestants will be appalled that the Archbishop of Canterbury has visited Lourdes, and preached there."

*"‘Lourdes represents everything about Roman Catholicism that the Protestant Reformation ejected, including apparitions, mariolatry and the veneration of saints. *
*
‘The archbishop’s simple presence there is a wholesale compromise, and * his sermon which included a reference to Mary as “the Mother of God” is a complete denial of Protestant orthodoxy.’"

"He added: ‘At a time when our country is crying out for clear Biblical leadership, it is nothing short of tragic that our supposedly Protestant archbishop is behaving as little more than a papal puppet.’"

So the archbishop is “behaving as little more than a papal puppet” when he shows dignified respect for the Blessed Mother of Jesus and referring to Mary as “the Mother of God” is distasteful to protestant leaders???

My God, can there be any salvation in a denomination that is offended by the Mother of God??? Does Jesus hear the prayers of those who refuse dignified respect for His own Mother whom he made as a participant in the salvation of the world?

“All generations shall call me blessed.” I guess the Blessed Mother didn’t have protestants in mind when she said that.
Click to expand...
Did you take a look at the PTS web site? I do not believe that the “Anglicans” that are part of that group are part of the Anglican Communion. From doing a quick review of the site, it appears to be a very anti-Catholic.

God Bless!
 
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