Archbishop of Canterbury: Anglicans must have space for deep disagreement' [CC]

[GKC]

If you would agree to combine the job with that of ++Cantuar (at an appropriate additional hourly rate, of course) we could throw in a halfway decent palace — with a splendid library attached.

Oooo. Does it have a river view, and some parkland nearby? Would be tempting.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

If you would agree to combine the job with that of ++Cantuar (at an appropriate additional hourly rate, of course) we could throw in a halfway decent palace — with a splendid library attached.

Been to the palace and worked in the splendid library. Nice. BUT, I head from the ABC (via YouTube), that getting TakeAways is a challenge. Perhaps you should rethink.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Oooo. Does it have a river view, and some parkland nearby? Would be tempting.

River view, substantial park, not far from Charing Cross Road book shops, and even the British Library. Pls send career résumé plus donation to this address.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Been to the palace and worked in the splendid library. Nice. BUT, I head from the ABC (via YouTube), that getting TakeAways is a challenge. Perhaps you should rethink.

Yep, nice story about the takeaways. Very Justin.

 

[GKC]

River view, substantial park, not far from Charing Cross Road book shops, and even the British Library. Pls send career résumé plus donation to this address.

WiIl the technical issue that, technically, I am not in the Communion, even to the extent ++Beach is in it, work for or against me?

 

[GKC]

Been to the palace and worked in the splendid library. Nice. BUT, I head from the ABC (via YouTube), that getting TakeAways is a challenge. Perhaps you should rethink.

I think there is a Chinese place…

Anyway, the library would make up for it. I can stock up on Ramen.

 

[Picky_Picky]

WiIl the technical issue that, technically, I am not in the Communion, even to the extent ++Beach is in it, work for or against me?

Heck no. I take it you have been baptised?

The technical staff at Lambeth will fight this out with the technical staff at Church House. No problem.

 

[GKC]

Heck no. I take it you have been baptised?

The technical staff at Lambeth will fight this out with the technical staff at Church House. No problem.

Baptized per the usual formula. Might work out.

 

[FollowChrist34]

No one will agree totally but the type of division that exists in anglicanism doesn’t seem healthy. Deep division will lead to schism eventually.

Agree 100% - but the elephant in the room is that this kind of division is alive and well in the Catholic Church too. The Catholic Church a high Anglican or high Lutheran is joining is a bit of a mirage I am afraid.

Or put another way I am sure they will encounter a real sense of déjà vu.

I do say this with great sadness.

 

[commenter]

Agree 100% - but the elephant in the room is that this kind of division is alive and well in the Catholic Church too. The Catholic Church a high Anglican or high Lutheran is joining is a bit of a mirage I am afraid.

Or put another way I am sure they will encounter a real sense of déjà vu.

I do say this with great sadness.

Only partly true.
Yes, there are many people in the Catholic Church that drift away from the Magisterium. That is not the same as a drifting magisterium, which the others have.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Only partly true.
Yes, there are many people in the Catholic Church that drift away from the Magisterium. That is not the same as a drifting magisterium, which the others have.

:yup: Indeed, and hold fast we must.

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=1323

The same thing has been tried, though ultimately without success, in the Catholic Church by dissident theologians and their followers among the laity, by priests and religious and even by some bishops. Several members of the German hierarchy are currently leading the campaign to change Catholic teaching on the nature and indissolubility of marriage. Even if they do not advocate a formal change in Catholic doctrine, they advocate policies of inclusion and absolution which would for all practical purposes indicate that what was once taught as true is now at best unimportant and at worst simply false.

This never ceases to amaze me because it carries such a high cost, as we will soon see. The reason behind the push for such changes is nearly always the same: Either the changelings believe that contemporary attitudes are a more reliable guide to the truth than Divine Revelation, or they fear the Church cannot retain an effective role in contemporary life if she insists on beliefs which the dominant culture rejects out of hand.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I think this is simple… conservative Anglicans should reunite with Rome.

That’s a bad idea .

 

[GKC]

That’s a bad idea .

Not for some conservative Anglicans.

 

[commenter]

Anglicanism flourished for centuries, with a balance of “high church” and “low church”. This allowed for plural forms, and some degree of choices for persons in most cities. There was variation in worship style - smells/bells or not - as well as different strains of thought, but all unified. Thus, a young adult might well differ from their parents, but still stay Anglican. That variety kept a mild tension going, but just enough so people would be challenged to different ideas, somewhat different worship styles, all within the Communion.

This balance depended on people in various roles - bishops, scholars, clergy, laity - all presupposing that Christian authority exists, and a sense of the supernatural. Both High and Low Church preserved these, as they discussed, sometimes argued, and lived out Scripture and Tradition. Thus, they could call to conversion.

The new “disagreement” the Archbishop is asking “space” for is different. He’s not saying Scripture and Tradition are different ways of following God, he’s saying we need to keep all those God-followers in, but make room for those who use the secular media as God’s new revelation, as well as those who want no supernatural god - just social goals, like equality. In other words, he wants the church to struggle to retain membership (not conversion) at all costs. The church would continue to foster traditional devotions, classic Anglican writings, incense, etc, (only) as long as this helps retain the consumer base in certain markets. Let the historic small town parish continue in peace as if nothing out of the ordinary is going on in that other city. What is really division will be rebranded as a “strength”, or as “diversity”.

Lewis accurately predicted the secular attack on Christianity, but overestimated the ability of the Anglican balance to respond. He did call for an alliance between “High” and “Low” - to what he called “Deep Church”. (If he could write one more essay today, with the new data of the past 50 years, I bet I know where he would now identify as “Deep Church”).

 

[GKC]

Anglicanism flourished for centuries, with a balance of “high church” and “low church”. This allowed for plural forms, and some degree of choices for persons in most cities. There was variation in worship style - smells/bells or not - as well as different strains of thought, but all unified. Thus, a young adult might well differ from their parents, but still stay Anglican. That variety kept a mild tension going, but just enough so people would be challenged to different ideas, somewhat different worship styles, all within the Communion.

This balance depended on people in various roles - bishops, scholars, clergy, laity - all presupposing that Christian authority exists, and a sense of the supernatural. Both High and Low Church preserved these, as they discussed, sometimes argued, and lived out Scripture and Tradition. Thus, they could call to conversion.

The new “disagreement” the Archbishop is asking “space” for is different. He’s not saying Scripture and Tradition are different ways of following God, he’s saying we need to keep all those God-followers in, but make room for those who use the secular media as God’s new revelation, as well as those who want no supernatural god - just social goals, like equality. In other words, he wants the church to struggle to retain membership at all costs. The church would continue to foster traditional devotions, classic Anglican writings, incense, etc, as long as this helps retain the consumer base in certain markets. Let the historic small town parish continue in peace as if nothing out of the ordinary is going on in that other city. What is really division will be rebranded as a “strength”, or as “diversity”.

Lewis accurately predicted the secular attack on Christianity, but overestimated the ability of the Anglican balance to respond. He did call for an alliance between “High” and “Low” - to what he called “Deep Church”. (If he could write one more essay today, with the new data of the past 50 years, I bet I know where he would now identify as “Deep Church”).

I’d stress a few things differently, word some differently, but basically, yes. Though 60 years of collecting and studying Lewis don’t make me read his hypothetical mind in that way.

 

[Memaw]

Only partly true.
Yes, there are many people in the Catholic Church that drift away from the Magisterium. That is not the same as a drifting magisterium, which the others have.

Agreed and it is sad that it’s that way but some just don’t try to learn their Catholic Faith as they should, they think they can have their cake and eat it too, (they think) But then the Church is made for sinners and we never know when one will be deeply touched by a strong Homily or something someone says or does to wake them up. Christ came to redeem us and he never sent sinners away. The Catholic church has taught the TRUTH of Jesus Christ for over 2,000 years and will continue to do the same till the end of time, In season and out. No matter what else is going on around her. It’s up to us if we want to follow Christ in HIS true teachings. The Catholic Church’s arms are wide open. God Bless, Memaw

 

[estesbob]

That’s a bad idea .

Actually Lutherans should do the same.

 

[commenter]

I’d stress a few things differently, word some differently, but basically, yes. Though 60 years of collecting and studying Lewis don’t make me read his hypothetical mind in that way.

Some day, amateur apologists who loved Lewis, then went on to Chesterton, and love the Magisterium, will give as much attention to converting our live non-Christian neighbors as we give to retroactively “converting” , or at least claiming, the late C. S. Lewis. He was already Christian without our guidance.

 

[GKC]

Some day, amateur apologists who loved Lewis, then went on to Chesterton, and love the Magisterium, will give as much attention to converting our live non-Christian neighbors as we give to retroactively “converting” , or at least claiming, the late C. S. Lewis. He was already Christian without our guidance.

Even so. Speaking as one who came to Chesterton, Lewis, Tolkien, Sayers, Williams, Lunn, Dawson, Knox and Belloc, almost simultaneously.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Actually Lutherans should do the same.

Compromise is not a good idea .