Archbishop of Canterbury on homsexual unions: "2 styles of being Anglican"

[7_Sorrows]

Hey Sorrows. Why so morose?

I for one think that this is a positive development. The ABC recognised the reality of a broken Anglican communion with his two track idea. Actually, though he says there are two “Anglican styles”, we all know that they are really two “substances”, one of which has nothing to do with traditional Anglicanism.

By cutting off the liberal Episcopalians from full communion, the Anglican Church becomes a much more viable, orthodox church. There is enormous interest on the part of Evangelicals in reconnecting with the roots of Christianity, especially the Early Church and ECFs. “Emerging” Evangelical churches are trying to mix modern evangelical theology with vestiges of tradition such as candles, icons and incense. There has been an influx of Evangelicals into the Orthodox Church in recent years and many posters on CA are former Evangelicals. Were the Anglican Church able to jettison its liberal wing, the remaining evangelical/anglo-catholic mix would be very appealing indeed to may evangelicals (and perhaps some Roman Catholics struggling with issues such as Papal supremacy, the immaculate conception and indulgences but who nonetheless don’t want to become Byzantine).

Moreover, once the liberals are formally separate from the orthodox Anglicans, then real discussions between the Anglican, Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches can take place regarding steps toward reunion. Such reunion won’t likely take place in our lifetime, but at least separating the liberals would remove another obstacle to unity.

I am positive.
.

talk of cutting off the episcopal church from full communion with the anglican body is one thing, but actually doing it, is another.

i would love to see discussions between the anglican, roman catholic and orthodox churches and if such a reunion would take place in our lifetime, that would be wonderful.

i will feel more positive once i see the Archbishop of Canterbury taking action on the matter, rather than just talking about it.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

talk of cutting off the episcopal church from full communion with the anglican body is one thing, but actually doing it, is another.

i would love to see discussions between the anglican, roman catholic and orthodox churches and if such a reunion would take place in our lifetime, that would be wonderful.

i will feel more positive once i see the Archbishop of Canterbury taking action on the matter, rather than just talking about it.

I think it will be formalised into two worldwide jurisdictions, completely overlapping and not in full communion with each other. And it will happen over time on a worldwide basis due to the issue of authority. Orthodox parishes who will now have formally identified themselves as such will wonder why they should submit to the authority of a Bishop who is a liberal, who will have formally identified himself as such. They will look for orthodox Bishops.

The same will happen with liberal parishes, who will align themselves with liberal Bishops. Over time, it will be basically two “Anglican Churches” that co-operate on some social welfare issues but otherwise have little communion.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I think it will be formalised into two worldwide jurisdictions, completely overlapping and not in full communion with each other. And it will happen over time on a worldwide basis due to the issue of authority. Orthodox parishes who will now have formally identified themselves as such will wonder why they should submit to the authority of a Bishop who is a liberal, who will have formally identified himself as such. They will look for orthodox Bishops.

The same will happen with liberal parishes, who will align themselves with liberal Bishops. Over time, it will be basically two “Anglican Churches” that co-operate on some social welfare issues but otherwise have little communion.

you could be right. we will have to wait and see. it usually doesn’t take the episcopal church too long before they are in the news again for something or other.

 

[thirdn6]

It appears that Rowan sees it now as only two ‘styles’. Like a pair of legs. The right needs the left. Though he knows that one leg has some sort of extreme viral (heretical) infections it just has to be dragged to keep going. Doesn’t have to be amputated at all.
Perhaps he’s been ‘taking too much tylenol’ he insists the pain is from the good leg and is okay. :banghead::banghead::banghead: “It’s not hurtin’, ya know!!!” :shrug:

 

[Hesychios]

It appears that Rowan sees it now as only two ‘styles’…

Is that like two lungs that can learn from each other?

• Rowan Williams was a sabotage, Blair picked him. He could have done a better job considering his Catholic sympathies at the time.

It is hard to believe that this is the best they could come up with.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Is that like two lungs that can learn from each other?

• Rowan Williams was a sabotage, Blair picked him. He could have done a better job considering his Catholic sympathies at the time.

It is hard to believe that this is the best they could come up with.

was there ever a really good Archbishop of Canterbury within the last 30 or 40 years?

i was trying to remember who was there before Rowan.

how long is the archbishop chosen for? when will Rowan step down or pass the torch so to speak to the next archbishop?

 

[GKC]

was there ever a really good Archbishop of Canterbury within the last 30 or 40 years?

i was trying to remember who was there before Rowan.

how long is the archbishop chosen for? when will Rowan step down or pass the torch so to speak to the next archbishop?

George Carey.

Maybe Michael Ramsey was about as good as there’s been lately. And he had problems. Weak on women’s ordination. OTOH, Paul VI and he were friends.

There is a retirement age for CoE clergy, don’t know if it applies to the archbishop. But they do retire.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Is that like two lungs that can learn from each other?

• Rowan Williams was a sabotage, Blair picked him. He could have done a better job considering his Catholic sympathies at the time.

It is hard to believe that this is the best they could come up with.

It always is.

GKC

 

[oberyn3]

I think that we are in a sad state when courteous and gentle language is construed as “chickening out.” I find this document to be clear, courageous, and altogether admirable both theologically and pastorally.

The Archbishop is striving to practice the charity of which St. Paul spoke, which “believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

How do you practice that charity when conflicts arise within your Communion?

Edwin

Very well said.

 

[Contarini]

It appears that Rowan sees it now as only two ‘styles’. Like a pair of legs. The right needs the left.

No. I think that it’s much more like Vatican II’s “concentric circle” approach to the Church. He’s just putting it diplomatically.

Though he knows that one leg has some sort of extreme viral (heretical) infections it just has to be dragged to keep going. Doesn’t have to be amputated at all.

Comparing our fellow human beings, let alone our brothers and sisters in Christ, to infected body parts that need to be amputated is starting down a very dark path. Think about how that kind of medical analogy has been used in the last century. Is this company you want?

Jesus Christ is our Head. He doesn’t get sick. So we don’t need to worry, and we don’t need to start amputating sick limbs. In fact, we should recognize that we are all sick, and we should submit ourselves humbly to the Great Physician instead of pointing fingers at members of the Body that we think are sicker than we are.

Edwin

 

[SpiritMeadow]

No. I think that it’s much more like Vatican II’s “concentric circle” approach to the Church. He’s just putting it diplomatically.

Comparing our fellow human beings, let alone our brothers and sisters in Christ, to infected body parts that need to be amputated is starting down a very dark path. Think about how that kind of medical analogy has been used in the last century. Is this company you want?

Jesus Christ is our Head. He doesn’t get sick. So we don’t need to worry, and we don’t need to start amputating sick limbs. In fact, we should recognize that we are all sick, and we should submit ourselves humbly to the Great Physician instead of pointing fingers at members of the Body that we think are sicker than we are.

Edwin

awww Contarini, you are being a wet blanket to their perverse fun in bashing. If they don’t have TEC to beat up on they gotta go back to beating on Muslims and Mormons and Jehovah’s Witness. That is sooooo boring and been there done that. This is new and fun.

If you took away the trappings, why no one would ever believe that actual Christians were talking!

I think some bibles are a missing the “mote in the eye” verse.

 

[thirdn6]

No. I think that it’s much more like Vatican II’s “concentric circle” approach to the Church. He’s just putting it diplomatically.

Comparing our fellow human beings, let alone our brothers and sisters in Christ, to infected body parts that need to be amputated is starting down a very dark path. Think about how that kind of medical analogy has been used in the last century. Is this company you want?

Jesus Christ is our Head. He doesn’t get sick. So we don’t need to worry, and we don’t need to start amputating sick limbs. In fact, we should recognize that we are all sick, and we should submit ourselves humbly to the Great Physician instead of pointing fingers at members of the Body that we think are sicker than we are.

Edwin

Hi Edwin - Can’t you see my point???
(Side: I assumed that you’re exponentially smarter than an ordinary CW like me. Oh, well…)

What I’m saying is… it appears that RW doesn’t see that heretical teachings is rapidly killing his communion and he is mindless of it. He favors living with that- living with ‘heretical liberals’- the abominable ‘style’- TEC if you ask me. He want to hold both camps hostage.
Getting rid of that ‘style’ is not commiting genocide against its people if I read you correctly. Getting rid of TEC means a whole lot less heresies to confront with. Your people don’t deserve that. Especially children. They don’t deserve to suffer in that mess. If they get rid of TEC people will still live- both styles will still live. Although separated. I’m positive on that. Let them be sorted out! Let go! Let the devil do his part… quick… and I say really quick!!! Remember Judas??? Ever wonder why the good Lord let him go?

Sadly, though, eventually the bad one died…

Sometimes healing doesn’t help if the patient is already possessed AND obssessed in killing its own self.

God bless you and I hope you find your way home to the Catholic Church.

 

[Soutane]

**The Anglican Church is no more, or less, than a manifestation, a showing forth ] of the Body of Christ in the modern world. It holds the Faith and Orders of the Apostles. That some of its members, a large proportion perhaps, including the TAC,] have fallen away from traditional beliefs is to be regretted, but the Church holds steady ,it is the individuals who have succumbed. Are we to assume that Romans shows no faltering as individuals?

The fallen brothers and sisters, are no longer Anglicans, holding the ancient faith and traditional beliefs, they are Neo Anglicans, who have surrendered to the teachings of the modern world and no longer hold to the Faith once revealed by Christ!
**

I don’t believe that I’ve ever met a Catholic who hasn’t faltered.I know that I did for well over 30 years and probably falter more or less daily.Don’t confuse faltering with out right division and schism.The last Catholic group to do so were the SSPX and they are simply now another group of Protestants.

Please do not refer to me or any other Catholic on this board as a Roman,Romans or Romish.It is a grevious insult that will not be tolerated.If you were unaware of this faux pas please accept my apologies but please.never repeat it.

pax

 

[Soutane]

Anglicanism. The Heinz 57 of Churches.

GKC

bwahahahaha.And you’re right GKC we should all care.

I personally think the Africans should start sending missionaries to Europe and the Americas,both Anglican AND Catholic.

pax

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Archbishop of Canterbury speaks about the Episcopal Church US and their heretical general convention 2009. But as usual, Dr Rowan Williams chickened out!. And continues to dream about something that can never happen. Agree to Disagree!.

archbishopofcanterbury.org/2502

This was what the Archbishop of Canterbury was like when his See was Roman Catholic. He actually did something.

youtube.com/watch?v=ym6Qgj55e3Y

Given the (remote) possibility that nobody has pointed this out already: The Abp. of C is not an “Anglican Pope” - he has no jurisdiction over any province of the Anglican Communion but his own, in England; whereas the Roman Pontiff has “supreme, full, and immediate jurisdiction” over every single Catholic in the entire universe - well, the world, anyway. Including all sees in the Church, of whatever rank or kind.​

So **+ **Rowan Cantuar can advise, express opinions & desires, but not command those members of the Anglican Communion who are not within his jurisdiction - this has nothing to do with the personal qualities of any Cantuar, and a lot to do with the nature of authority within Anglicanism: it is “dispersed authority” - not the highly centralised type characteristic of Rome since (say) 1829ish. Whether this be good or bad, desirable or undesirable, is BTW: it is simply how things are, in each Church. The similarities between “Rome” & “Canterbury” should not lead members of of either Church to see similarities where they don’t exist.

 

[GKC]

bwahahahaha.And you’re right GKC we should all care.

I personally think the Africans should start sending missionaries to Europe and the Americas,both Anglican AND Catholic.

pax

In a sense, in seeking and accepting episcopal oversight from African Anglican jurisdictions, this is what has happened. America is seen as missionary territory by the orthodox.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[GKC]

Given the (remote) possibility that nobody has pointed this out already: The Abp. of C is not an “Anglican Pope” - he has no jurisdiction over any province of the Anglican Communion but his own, in England; whereas the Roman Pontiff has “supreme, full, and immediate jurisdiction” over every single Catholic in the entire universe - well, the world, anyway. Including all sees in the Church, of whatever rank or kind.​

So **+ **Rowan Cantuar can advise, express opinions & desires, but not command those members of the Anglican Communion who are not within his jurisdiction - this has nothing to do with the personal qualities of any Cantuar, and a lot to do with the nature of authority within Anglicanism: it is “dispersed authority” - not the highly centralised type characteristic of Rome since (say) 1829ish. Whether this be good or bad, desirable or undesirable, is BTW: it is simply how things are, in each Church. The similarities between “Rome” & “Canterbury” should not lead members of of either Church to see similarities where they don’t exist.

I pointed out the limits of the role of Cantaur, and the structure of Anglicanism, in the first post I ever made on the net, anywhere, around 10 years ago. I try to make an annual commemorative repeat of it.

GKC

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I pointed out the limits of the role of Cantaur, and the structure of Anglicanism, in the first post I ever made on the net, anywhere, around 10 years ago. I try to make an annual commemorative repeat of it.

GKC

Maybe those of us no longer under Cantuar or even the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church (makes him sound like a stove…) should leave such matters to those who have not “poped” ​

 

[GKC]

Maybe those of us no longer under Cantuar or even the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church (makes him sound like a stove…) should leave such matters to those who have not “poped” ​

At the time, I was on a RC board, and the main participants were a sort of Anglican, who liked to use Hebrew a lot, and a learned gentleman who graces these very threads, even today. Amongst us, we raised confusion to an art form.

As you know, it is a difficult subject to get across to our Roman brethren; polity not being the same, and all.

GKC

 

[Justy90]

More evidence of the implosion of Henry’s church.

You’ve got alot of room to talk when regardless of said doctrines, your church is the biggest propagator of homosexuality the world has ever known:blush: