Archbishop of Canterbury says RC Church 'has lost credibility'

[AnotherVoice]

In casual conversation with some of my fellow church members, most had not heard what the archbishop of Canterbury had said and could care even less.

We were occupied with making our new members feel welcome.

 

[anode]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. In this thread, no Catholic has denied (that I recall) that the Irish Church has lost credibility. As widespread as this horror is, it would be polyannish, naive, unrealistic, etc., to assert that the Church’s credibility has NOT been harmed (separate from Her impeccability and Her ultimate triumph as the Bride of Christ, as per His promises concerning Her), and throughout the world, not just in Ireland.

What most Catholics in this thread have asserted (and I think any reasonable person would agree with them) is their astonishment that Rowan Williams, this particular Archbishop of Canterbury, would dare to offer commentary on any other Church or ecclesial community, given the apostasy into which the Anglican Communion, at least in the West, is drifting and given his own inability to take an effective stand (he dithers, when he says something, it doesn’t really mean anything). That opinion is shared by most of the orthodox Anglicans I’ve read of who are offering opinions. I know that the position of our Pope and their “instrument of unity” (talk about dithering) is different…and I thank God that it is. Even though Thomas Cranmer was a heretic and schismatic, he had, at least, the courage of his convictions, that lead him to thrust the hand with which he signed his recantation into the fire that burned him. I don’t see the 104th Archbishop doing the same, because if he has any conviction, it’s that everybody can be made happy.

Well, do you think that* you would thrust your hand into the fire? I wouldn’t! I don’t think that you would, either. Williams does *have the courage of his convictions, and he’s used both courage and his convictions to try to control the creation of gay bishops and the spread of schism in the AC. He hasn’t succeeded, of course, no more than Cranmer succeeded in controlling Mary. You have one set of convictions, other Anglicans have another.

 

[peary]

Rowan Williams has said that the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland has lost “all credibility” over the way it had dealt with paedophile priests."

Read about it here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8601381.stm

And here: timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7086328.ece

Comments appear here: bit.ly/92lwl6

This is a sad day for Christians in the UK (and elsewhere) and is causing a media feeding frenzy

Pax

That is part of the 60s culture whereby psychiatric treatment was the ‘other’ faith of the Church and everything and anything could be ‘cured’ by psychoanalysis. Then these priests are sent back with a seeming “clean bill of health” only to end up doing the same things over and over again, bringing much scandal to the diocese and the whole Church, for that matter.

Many (but not all) bishops didn’t know what to do with this development, so they kept transferring them around. Even when these priests were warned, they continued to act out their psychosis, ruining lives along the way. Some families contacted the police - nothing happened. Other families contacted the bishop - nothing happened. Some contacted the Vatican - nothing happened…until recently.

Pope John XXIII in 1962 had sent out a directive to ALL dioceses and, in it, bishops were to follow a specific protocol in dealing with alleged sexual abuse by priests and religious. Unfortunately, as the 60s and 70s rolled on, this directive was ignored and conveniently forgotten.

But Rowan Williams is the LAST person to throw stones as he almost single-handedly has led to a massive schismatic shift in his own Anglican church, with about a million who are about to enter the Catholic Church. Shame be on him.

 

[hawkeye]

The house built on the Rock still stands, it may have a few broken windows, but the foundation is strong, it wasn’t built on the shifting sands of popular opinion.

 

[anode]

That is part of the 60s culture whereby psychiatric treatment was the ‘other’ faith of the Church and everything and anything could be ‘cured’ by psychoanalysis. Then these priests are sent back with a seeming “clean bill of health” only to end up doing the same things over and over again, bringing much scandal to the diocese and the whole Church, for that matter.

Many (but not all) bishops didn’t know what to do with this development, so they kept transferring them around. Even when these priests were warned, they continued to act out their psychosis, ruining lives along the way. Some families contacted the police - nothing happened. Other families contacted the bishop - nothing happened. Some contacted the Vatican - nothing happened…until recently.

Pope John XXIII in 1962 had sent out a directive to ALL dioceses and, in it, bishops were to follow a specific protocol in dealing with alleged sexual abuse by priests and religious. Unfortunately, as the 60s and 70s rolled on, this directive was ignored and conveniently forgotten.

But Rowan Williams is the LAST person to throw stones as he almost single-handedly has led to a massive schismatic shift in his own Anglican church, with about a million who are about to enter the Catholic Church. Shame be on him.

People are blaming the *laissez-faire *psychology of the 60-70’s (for want of a better description), but in at least one case, the psychiatrist who interviewed Hullerman in Essen, tried by both calls and letters to warn the Munich archdiocese in no uncertain terms. Fr. Hullerman was not to work unsupervised, not to work with children, was to be in one-on-one therapy (he ended up in group therapy). Hullerman moved to Munich, after a memo was sent to Archbishop Ratzinger regarding his ‘medical’ problem and therapy, and five days after he started therapy, began working in a parish–and disappeared. The psychiatrist’s serious warnings were ignored.

I think that Rowan Williams did everything in his power to avoid the rift. He did not encourage gay bishops at all, and pointedly did not invite Robinson to the Lambeth Conference in 2009. Despite the fact that he completely disapproved of gay bishops, he did everything in his power to keep the church from splitting. I’m not sure anyone could have done more.

We’ll see how many Episcopalians convert. I understand that most come from the TAC group, which is undegoing factional strife. My understanding was that they had 100 parishes of average 50 members–that’s 5000. But there’s also conservative Africa. Time will tell. I trust that the knowledgable posters on the Anglican threads will keep us posted.

 

[Lex]

Regarding swimming the Tiber - don’t think it will be as popular as some might like to think. Ironically some of those who might swim will do so over the women’s ordination issue but not the issue of homosexuality, something that might add fuel to the fire so to speak.

Those who will leave would have done so regardless of a papal offer of what looks like a time limited and brief window opportunity. Still, it will bolster the pre-Vatican II chaps, which I think was the intention anyway.

Hey ho - don’t we make it difficult for ourselves

Pax