Archbishop ok's condoms for HIV couples

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Non-Catholic spouses can’t receive, although it surely would be nice. The problem is, they don’t believe in transubstantation for the greatest part, so they think it’s just a wafer.

Condoms aren’t OK for HIV couples. Premarital sex is not OK, simple as it is. Abstain, abstain, abstain. For married people - what sort of a husband or wife would expose his spouse to even 5% risk of contracting a lethal disease?

However, I would agree that using condoms without contraception directly in mind should be regarded a bit like using contraceptive pills for medical purposes. And, what’s more, condoms can never be abortifacient, contrary to pills, where some risk always exists.
 
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yinekka:
The Vatican apparently caved in because I have seen no statement issued to the contrary.
The See of Peter is currently vacant. There is no one in the Vatican who has the authority to clamp down on this bishop (assuming that this actually happened and has been reported accurately). The Prefects of the Roman Congregations lose their jobs when a Pope dies since their authority is merely an extension of the Pope’s authority.
 
felra: I’m not sure that the article you cited makes an air-tight case. On the face it doesn’t seem to make a clear enough distinction between protection/medical treatment and intended contraception.

That being said, the argument that 5% risk of infection is too much is a good one, and would be the one I would cite in saying condom use is always illicit. It is not clear, however, that condoms can be ruled out simply because they are a contraceptive.
 
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felra:
Please show the AAA post where the Church says that “those folks should refrain from sex due to the fact that condoms aren’t 100% effective”. The use of condoms in the sacrament of marriage is NEVER licit, even if condons were 100% effective against the spread of HIV virus.
I think you just repeated what I said. As far as the AAA post, that was several months ago. I wouldn’t even know how to find it.
 
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Ghosty:
felra: I’m not sure that the article you cited makes an air-tight case. On the face it doesn’t seem to make a clear enough distinction between protection/medical treatment and intended contraception.

That being said, the argument that 5% risk of infection is too much is a good one, and would be the one I would cite in saying condom use is always illicit. It is not clear, however, that condoms can be ruled out simply because they are a contraceptive.
Whether the article authors connect the dots clearly between protection/medical treatment and intended contraception seems irrelevant to the core argument. Likewise, only a moral ground basis (not condom effectiveness) can withstand the onslaught of arguments of pro-contraception proponents.

The article authors properly take a natural law level of argument to refute the use of condoms to as licit to prevent the spread of AIDS. The pro-condom use proponents attempt to bypass/deny that procreation is a good, and assert that it is sometimes permissible to act directly against basic human good:

In short, these cardinals [Cardinals George Cottier and Javier Lozano Barragán] argue as follows:
  1. Since what is directly intended is not to prevent procreation but to avoid contagion, one may apply the principles of double effect and the lesser evil:
a. Double effect: although the condom is a contraceptive, it also serves to avoid AIDS contagion; therefore, it is legitimate to use the condom for the latter, though it causes contraception, a necessary but not directly sought effect.

b. Lesser evil: placed between two evils, the use of a contraceptive device condemned by natural and revealed morals, and the deadly risk of contagion with AIDS, an incurable and lethal illness, it is licit to choose the first evil (condom use) to avoid the second and greater evil (death).

As the article authors point out:

Choosing an action as the lesser of two evils is not licit if it means choosing between two moral evils, two sins. In the case of physical evils, one may opt for the lesser.12

Thus, the principles of double effect and lesser evil do not apply to the use of condoms, such use being “intrinsically evil.”13

These cardinals are advancing the same line of reasoning that the revisionist theologians call the “Preference” or Principle of “Proportionate Good”, which supports the denial of the truth of moral absolutes basic to moral theology. They apply the principle of totality whereby some hoped-for-good-to-come-about can justify the deliberate intention to act directly against a* good* here and now.
 
(continued)

The other two contentions of these Cardinals that one has the moral obligation/option to “not murder’ and to act in self-defense:
  1. To knowingly infect someone with HIV is tantamount to murder, prohibited in the Fifth Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill.” Hence, the infected person has an obligation to use the condom to avoid committing murder.
  2. According to natural law there is a right to* legitimate self-defense*, which allows one to defend himself with adequate means from an aggressor. The adequate means to defend oneself from AIDS contagion is condom use; therefore, the spouse in danger of becoming infected has the right to demand use of the condom.
…equally do not apply as the article authors point out:

There is no superiority of the Fifth Commandment over the Sixth and Ninth permitting one to violate the law on sexual morality without sin in situations where there is risk to one’s life or that of others.

The argument of legitimate self-defense likewise does not apply to condom use. Saint Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church and Prince of Catholic Moralists, says the following regarding legitimate self-defense in sexual matters:

In case of physical aggression, it is lawful to kill the aggressor of someone’s chastity (pudicitiae). . . . When, however, the woman consents, or at least does not resist in a positive manner, it is not licit to kill the assailant, for that would not be countering the use of force with force.16
 
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