Archbishop Sample - All priest's should learn Traditional Latin Mass

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I agree there are those who would seek to sow discord and confusion. Still, the Church remains undivided.
Yes, ultimately one catholic Church as the Creed states.

The human element, on the other hand, has many divisions… in addition to the discord and confusion you mention … I would add there are those who seek to sow disobedience, wrong thinking, hate and close mindedness - division comes in many forms
 
Dug this up from the forum over a decade ago. It may still be required on paper, but in practice, not so much.
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Are priests required to learn Latin? Traditional Catholicism
You would think that they would be required to learn Latin, but not always. The young priest who was the youth minister at our church for a couple of years while I was in high school admitted that he did not learn Latin. I was very disappointed by this-I was taking latin classes and liking them at the time.:mad:
 
He’s not saying that all priests ought to offer the TLM on a regular basis. I think he said it is beneficial to the priest if he even learns how to offer the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. (It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the whole thing.)

A very imperfect analogy would be the idea that every chef who cooks meat ought to be able to break down a side of beef, a side of pork or a whole lamb. That isn’t saying that every chef ought to be a butcher on the side or that every restaurant ought to prep its own meat starting from the whole animal. It is saying that understanding how the animal is put together by firsthand experience has an effect in how a chef thinks about what he does in the kitchen and experiences his relationship to his profession, a valuable effect that cannot come from book understanding.

In other words, the TLM is not just an alternative version of the Mass. Of the two forms we now have, it is the foundational form.
 
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In other words, the TLM is not just an alternative version of the Mass. Of the two forms we now have, it is the foundational form.
I do not agree with that statement. The foundation of both forms is the last supper, the bread of life discourse and various events from antiquity. One form of the Roman rite does not rest upon the other. Instead we have to equal forms of the Roman Rite. A primary reason for the reform was a return to the sources and a shedding of that which is not essential… not a revised version of the EF.

I believe being overly fanatical about the different forms liturgy of the liturgy comes with an opportunity costs … namely time not spent evangelizing, assisting the poor, church teaching on social justice, etc.
 
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Decree On Priestly Training OPTATAM TOTIUS Proclaimed By His Holiness Pope Paul VI On October 28, 1965 - see #13

Latina Lingua Authored By: Pope Benedict XVI Latina Lingua Pope Benedict XVI With this Apostolic Letter in the form of ‘Motu Proprio’ Benedict XVI establishes the Pontifical Academy for Latin November 2012 . " 1. The Latin language has always been held in very high esteem by the Catholic Church and by the Roman Pontiffs. They have assiduously encouraged the knowledge and dissemination of Latin, adopting it as the Church’s language, capable of passing on the Gospel message throughout the world. This is authoritatively stated by the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia of my Predecessor, Blessed John XXIII."

" 2. In our time too, knowledge of the Latin language and culture is proving to be more necessary than ever for the study of the sources, which, among others, numerous ecclesiastical disciplines draw from, such as, for example, theology, liturgy, patristics and canon law, as the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council teaches (cf. Decree Optatam Totius , n. 13).

In addition, precisely in order to highlight the Church’s universal character, the liturgical books of the Roman Rite, the most important documents of the Papal Magisterium and the most solemn official Acts of the Roman Pontiffs are written in this language in their authentic form."

"4. It therefore appears urgently necessary to support the commitment to a greater knowledge and more competent use of Latin, both in the ecclesial context … "
Continued below -
 
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Continuing on -

Program Priestly Formation 5th edition 2005 ← pdf file opens.
"182. The curriculum of studies of college seminarians must include a
grounding in the liberal arts and sciences, including studies in the humanities. Special attention is to be given to classical and foreign languages. A knowledge of Latin and the biblical languages is foundational and should be given the emphasis that the Church accords it.117 (refers to See Optatam totius, no. 13; CIC, c. 249)
Particular attention must be given to ensure that before entering the theologate all seminarians can demonstrate that they have acquired that “knowledge of Latin which will enable them to understand and make use of so many scientific sources and of the documents of the Church,” according to the insistence of the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council.118 (also refers to Optatam totius, no. 13).

The Gift of Priestly Vocation Ratio Fundamentalist Institutionis Sacerdotalis Dec 2016 ← also pdf file.
“183. … As well as Biblical Hebrew and Greek, seminarians should be introduced to the study of Latin from the start of the course of formation, since it provides an access to the sources of the Magisterium and the history of the Church.”

Sacrosanctum Concilium
“36. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”
"54. … Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them. "
 
I do not agree with that statement. The foundation of both forms is the last supper, the bread of life discourse and various events from antiquity. One form of the Roman rite does not rest upon the other. Instead we have to equal forms of the Roman Rite. A primary reason for the reform was a return to the sources and a shedding of that which is not essential… not a revised version of the EF.

I believe being overly fanatical about the different forms liturgy of the liturgy comes with an opportunity costs … namely time not spent evangelizing, assisting the poor, church teaching on social justice, etc.
Learning traditional ways of doing things is not “fanatical.” From woodworking to food preparation to textile work to sculpture and all of the arts–not to mention letters!–modern practitioners never fail to gain appreciation of what we do now by learning how things were done in the past. Who on earth chooses entire epochs of the past to ignore? No one who really wants to belong to the succession of those who went before, those before them who accepted from the past and handed forward to those who came after.

There is more than one form of paralyzing rigidity. Repugnance towards the present in favor of the past is one. Repugnance towards the past in favor of the present is another.
 
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No one suggested a Liturgy war. More artificial controversy.
Archbishop Sample most certainly is not. I think he finds the idea of putting the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Mass in adversarial relationship to each other a source of sadness. It happens, but it should not be that way. There is no reason for that.
 
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What’s unfortunate about the ordinary form is that there are beautiful theologically rich hymns in the breviary that have been replaces with more contemporary music.

ZP
 
I love the TLM. Fortunately, we have one here in the Diocese Of Atlanta- Unfortunately, it’s 24 miles away from me, so I can’t always attend due to work.
It’s a full FSSP parish with Mass and confessions seven days a week. Come on over. 24 miles is about the average drive for most parishioners. Doesn’t have to be regularly.
 
It’s a bit absurd to me that priests aren’t required to learn the EF. There are two forms of the mass. As priests, they should know how to say both forms. They may never be called upon to actually say an EF mass, but they ought to know how!
 
First, all priests are required to be fluent in Latin in order to be ordained.
Do you have a source for this requirement? It’s my understanding that not all seminaries offer Latin and I recently met a US native born priest who didn’t know it at all. I said I thought priests were required to know Latin and he said that wasn’t the case, and that he knew several other languages (he named them off, I remember he spoke French and Greek and two more) but did not know Latin at all.

Edited to add, I found a past thread on CAF about this where a priest in formation said that in US, it is “strongly advised” that priests learn Latin, Greek and also Spanish, but there is no requirement that the priest learn Latin.
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Are all priests required to learn Latin in seminary? Vocations
The Code for Priestly Formation version 5 is what governs the formation of priests within the United States. It can be found here, USCCB - Vocations & Priestly Formation Home Page. Paragraph 172 states that Latin and Greek are “strongly advised” and that Spanish is also “strongly advised”, but not required. I am currently in formation for the priesthood with the Order of Carmelites and no, Latin is not required. A priest in formation in the USA is required to complete an MDiv which is a four…
The link the friar posted appears to no longer point to the Code for Priestly Formation V. 5, but I found that at this URL. I am not sure to which section he was specifically referring as it seems to mention Latin in a bunch of places as “recommended” or “strongly advised” but I can’t find any provision stating it was required for ordination.


Here is also another past thread discussing this topic where it sounds like some priests were ordained without learning Latin at all, and others had maybe a year of it, which as someone who took Latin myself I can say that one year would be unlikely to make them able to say Mass in it or comprehend any writings beyond basic beginner level. One certainly wouldn’t be “fluent” in it without at least 3 years of pretty intense study. I took 4 years of it and got A’s and could do some translation and recite some poetry, but I wasn’t “fluent” in it then or now (40 years later).
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Are priests required to learn Latin? Traditional Catholicism
I am currently watching an adoration online and the priest said some parts in Latin. It makes me wonder if all priests need to learn Latin? Thanks!
 
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I believe being overly fanatical about the different forms liturgy of the liturgy comes with an opportunity costs … namely time not spent evangelizing, assisting the poor, church teaching on social justice, etc.
Sometimes the best way to evangelize is through the mass. Unfortunately, not everyone has an opportunity to experience the same type of Novus Ordo that others often speak about.

Sadly numerous people on CAF have asked why their parish celebrates or incorporates different practices during the Mass and some are so confused by the changes that they are concerned if it borders on liturgical abuse.

Often times people suggest the TLM simply as a solution to the lack of uniformity found in the NO.

Also I don’t agree that social justice is necessarily one of the top functions of the Church. It should be the salvation of souls first and foremost. Social justice is becoming more of an umbrella which encompasses everything from immigration to the environment and often times these goals are prioritized above speaking the truth of the gospel.
 
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Should priests who celebrate only the EF learn to celebrate the OF also?
 
What would they need to learn? Which prayers to leave out and which ones to shorten?
 
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mrsdizzyd:
Learning the OF is a part of the standard curriculum of every seminary so far as I know.
FSSP and ICKSP seminaries too?
Their charisms specify that they only celebrate mass in the EF. As such, they would never have occasion to say an OF mass publicly. Nevertheless, I’d be shocked if an FSSP or ICKSP priest could not say an OF mass. It takes considerably less practice and instruction to say an OF mass vs an EF mass.
 
Dug this up from the forum over a decade ago. It may still be required on paper, but in practice, not so much.
Just because many seminaries quit teaching latin does not make it not a requirement, it just says that rectors and bishops have not always followed the law.
Being able to say a Mass in a language other than one’s native language is quite a good thing. But I am not certain that translates to being fluent in the language, as in one could function, speak or write without pause or complete accuracy.
The canon says a priest should be “well versed” in Latin. That would imply, to me, they would very much be capable of saying a mass in . latin I have seen priests from Latin America in this country who do not know English well enough to carry on a conversation, ie they are not fluent, but they are capable of saying mass in English, ie they can read and pronounce the words well enough to say mass. So you are correct, being fluent is not necessary to say mass.

“Versed - experienced or skilled in; knowledgeable about”
Certainly this implies that saying mass is possible.
 
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