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CTBcin
Guest
I’ve already read it.
Archbishop Sample - All priest's should learn Traditional Latin Mass
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ioannes_pius
Guest
There are some priests even in my diocese who were not taught Latin during their studies at seminary. Wonder what happened there?
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otjm
Guest
Nothing, obviously.
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ioannes_pius
Guest
Good point, LOL!
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PetraG
Guest
I would say rather that, since the Mass is the source and summit of the Christian life, the whole of Christian charity, including social justice initiatives, rest on strengthening the faithful via the Eucharist. Likewise, the expression of God’s life that the Mass gives will always be Christian charity, a charity that leads not to token gift-giving but to true justice. There is a reason the Missionaries of Charity emphasize Mass and Eucharistic adoration so strongly. Whichever form of the Mass is offered, it is of great importance to both the Church and the world that it be done reverently and with great awareness of what is taking place. (cont)
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PetraG
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(cont)
This is from the conclusion of Pope Benedict XVI’s apostolic exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis
Dear brothers and sisters, the Eucharist is at the root of every form of holiness, and each of us is called to the fullness of life in the Holy Spirit. How many saints have advanced along the way of perfection thanks to their eucharistic devotion! From Saint Ignatius of Antioch to Saint Augustine, from Saint Anthony Abbot to Saint Benedict, from Saint Francis of Assisi to Saint Thomas Aquinas, from Saint Clare of Assisi to Saint Catherine of Siena, from Saint Paschal Baylon to Saint Peter Julian Eymard, from Saint Alphonsus Liguori to Blessed Charles de Foucauld, from Saint John Mary Vianney to Saint Thérèse of Lisieux, from Saint Pius of Pietrelcina to Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, from Blessed Piergiorgio Frassati to Blessed Ivan Merz, to name only a few, holiness has always found its centre in the sacrament of the Eucharist.
This most holy mystery thus needs to be firmly believed, devoutly celebrated and intensely lived in the Church. Jesus’ gift of himself in the sacrament which is the memorial of his passion tells us that the success of our lives is found in our participation in the trinitarian life offered to us truly and definitively in him. The celebration and worship of the Eucharist enable us to draw near to God’s love and to persevere in that love until we are united with the Lord whom we love. The offering of our lives, our fellowship with the whole community of believers and our solidarity with all men and women are essential aspects of that logiké latreía , spiritual worship, holy and pleasing to God (cf. Rom 12:1), which transforms every aspect of our human existence, to the glory of God. I therefore ask all pastors to spare no effort in promoting an authentically eucharistic Christian spirituality. Priests, deacons and all those who carry out a eucharistic ministry should always be able to find in this service, exercised with care and constant preparation, the strength and inspiration needed for their personal and communal path of sanctification. I exhort the lay faithful, and families in particular, to find ever anew in the sacrament of Christ’s love the energy needed to make their lives an authentic sign of the presence of the risen Lord. I ask all consecrated men and women to show by their eucharistic lives the splendour and the beauty of belonging totally to the Lord.
Liturgy and Christian charity can never be either-or. The two must always be both-and, as the source of the gift needed for life and the right expression of the gift of life have to go together. If any Christian imagines there is one without the other, that Christian needs to look again!
This is from the conclusion of Pope Benedict XVI’s apostolic exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis
Dear brothers and sisters, the Eucharist is at the root of every form of holiness, and each of us is called to the fullness of life in the Holy Spirit. How many saints have advanced along the way of perfection thanks to their eucharistic devotion! From Saint Ignatius of Antioch to Saint Augustine, from Saint Anthony Abbot to Saint Benedict, from Saint Francis of Assisi to Saint Thomas Aquinas, from Saint Clare of Assisi to Saint Catherine of Siena, from Saint Paschal Baylon to Saint Peter Julian Eymard, from Saint Alphonsus Liguori to Blessed Charles de Foucauld, from Saint John Mary Vianney to Saint Thérèse of Lisieux, from Saint Pius of Pietrelcina to Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, from Blessed Piergiorgio Frassati to Blessed Ivan Merz, to name only a few, holiness has always found its centre in the sacrament of the Eucharist.
This most holy mystery thus needs to be firmly believed, devoutly celebrated and intensely lived in the Church. Jesus’ gift of himself in the sacrament which is the memorial of his passion tells us that the success of our lives is found in our participation in the trinitarian life offered to us truly and definitively in him. The celebration and worship of the Eucharist enable us to draw near to God’s love and to persevere in that love until we are united with the Lord whom we love. The offering of our lives, our fellowship with the whole community of believers and our solidarity with all men and women are essential aspects of that logiké latreía , spiritual worship, holy and pleasing to God (cf. Rom 12:1), which transforms every aspect of our human existence, to the glory of God. I therefore ask all pastors to spare no effort in promoting an authentically eucharistic Christian spirituality. Priests, deacons and all those who carry out a eucharistic ministry should always be able to find in this service, exercised with care and constant preparation, the strength and inspiration needed for their personal and communal path of sanctification. I exhort the lay faithful, and families in particular, to find ever anew in the sacrament of Christ’s love the energy needed to make their lives an authentic sign of the presence of the risen Lord. I ask all consecrated men and women to show by their eucharistic lives the splendour and the beauty of belonging totally to the Lord.
Liturgy and Christian charity can never be either-or. The two must always be both-and, as the source of the gift needed for life and the right expression of the gift of life have to go together. If any Christian imagines there is one without the other, that Christian needs to look again!
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otjm
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Given the terms of both Summorum Pontificum and Pope Benedict’s letter accompanying it, as well as the fact that the vast majority of Masses in the vast majority of parishes in the US or the Ordinary Form, that would not seem to be in keeping with the above. There has been enough said that it should be clear that priests (as seminarians, or after ordination) who have been introduced to the Extraordinary Form have found that it positively impacts their praying the Ordinary Form.
That is entirely different than requiring it to be a regularly said Mass at the seminary. What is elective is elective; trying to move it to a non-elective status is not the practice of the Church. It would be comparable to going into a parish and changing the Mass schedule to include the EF weekly when the parish has not the requisite group to request it - or may have no group at all.
That is entirely different than requiring it to be a regularly said Mass at the seminary. What is elective is elective; trying to move it to a non-elective status is not the practice of the Church. It would be comparable to going into a parish and changing the Mass schedule to include the EF weekly when the parish has not the requisite group to request it - or may have no group at all.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
You never know what might draw a group. We have a priest who says both forms and when he can he will offer the EF and draws a great many people. He offers it not because a group of people are requesting it but because he wants to offer it. As I said it draws a great many people.
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adamhovey1988
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What if they are Eastern Catholic? What need would they have?
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Lysander
Guest
That ariticle is an example of why I don’t read their stuff. Attacks Catholics who practice different then the author, she doesn’t understand basic premise and reason for mass. That Christ in the Blessed Sacrament is the center of Mass and the priest leads people to him.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
A local priest did exactly this because of a request from a group of parishioners. It took several months before he was ready; and even after he started saying Mass, it was a little bumpy at first (which no one minded if they noticed; they were just grateful that he was willing to say the TLM for them.).
But I think several months is very reasonable; I am sure it is not easy to learn the TLM from scratch, especially when priests have a busy schedule as most do.
But I think several months is very reasonable; I am sure it is not easy to learn the TLM from scratch, especially when priests have a busy schedule as most do.
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Brendan_64
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That’s good news. He sounds like a good pastor.
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CTBcin
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The seminary is a different environment from the parish. If the seminary rector and faculty think that requiring an EF class and/or having a regularly scheduled EF Mass in the seminary would be good for formation, then I don’t see why anything should stop them, hypothetically speaking.
That being said, I do think that keeping the EF optional is the smartest thing.
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otjm
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Teaching the rubrics and having a Mass (which demonstrates them live) is fine as a teaching tool. Setting it as one of the daily Masses (which was what I was responding to)is more than just a step beyond teaching.
It is like saying that those who go to an FSSP seminary should have the OF celebrated once a week.
And there is a bit of difference if there is a priest on faculty who says the Ef privately, and any seminarian wishing to join may do so - while the OF is available as the weekly Mass.
There are people who are very strongly attracted to the EF - I get it; I grew up on it and served it regularly up to and including being Master of Ceremonies at 2 Solemn High Masses. I get it. But suggesting that all seminaries have one weekly Mass as the EF is pushing the envelope. As Pope Benedict made clear, a priest cannot be required to say it; I fail to see that making it one of the daily Masses each week in a seminary does any good. The vast majority of Catholics attending Mass weekly attend the OF - as the Pope noted (a bit dryly) that is why it is called the Ordinary form. That in turn would indicate that the majority of seminarians, if not the vast majority - have the OF as their spirituality expression; making the EF mandatory (as my experience was that daily Mass was mandatory) doesn’t make sense.
I do agree that teaching it as part of learning the rubrics of the Mass makes sense for a number of reasons. Whether the class should be mandatory - I will leave to others.
It is like saying that those who go to an FSSP seminary should have the OF celebrated once a week.
And there is a bit of difference if there is a priest on faculty who says the Ef privately, and any seminarian wishing to join may do so - while the OF is available as the weekly Mass.
There are people who are very strongly attracted to the EF - I get it; I grew up on it and served it regularly up to and including being Master of Ceremonies at 2 Solemn High Masses. I get it. But suggesting that all seminaries have one weekly Mass as the EF is pushing the envelope. As Pope Benedict made clear, a priest cannot be required to say it; I fail to see that making it one of the daily Masses each week in a seminary does any good. The vast majority of Catholics attending Mass weekly attend the OF - as the Pope noted (a bit dryly) that is why it is called the Ordinary form. That in turn would indicate that the majority of seminarians, if not the vast majority - have the OF as their spirituality expression; making the EF mandatory (as my experience was that daily Mass was mandatory) doesn’t make sense.
I do agree that teaching it as part of learning the rubrics of the Mass makes sense for a number of reasons. Whether the class should be mandatory - I will leave to others.
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CTBcin
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For the sake of argument, I’d say it’s a slightly different situation from the FSSP. The FSSP is an EF only institute. It’s part of their charism. For the rest of the Latin Church, the EF is part of the Church’s heritage and is one of the two forms of the Roman rite.
Our seminary has an occasional EF Mass, but attendance is not required and it does not replace the normal OF Mass of the day. This is probably the best way to do things, when it comes to celebrating the EF in the context of a seminary.
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otjm
Guest
Every Catholic does have access to the EF, according to the rules set out by Pope Benedict. And as he noted, the OF is (and likely will continue to be what the vast majority of people want.
There are some parishes which are all EF; the total of all parishes in the US with an EF (including one which has or has had it once every 6 months) is a bit less than 3$ of all parishes, and has been stable for several years. The fact is, the vast majority do not appear to have an interest in it. Where parishes have one EF a week, attendance appears to be lower that at the OF Masses, os there is no significant move for more people to attend.
a priest is allowed to say one Mass per day. By permission, he may say two. By further permission, he may say three. The parish I was in for about 30 years had 4 Masses on the weekend 1 Saturday and 3 Sunday and all were well attended, with the 10:30 Sunday Mass the largest attendance. Changing one of those for a few parishioners is to tell the great majority “tough”. I now have a parish will 11 Masses; 3 Spanish, 1 Vietnamese, and 6 OF; they also have one EF, which attracts somewhere betwee 75 to 90 people. This is a parish of over 3,000 families (not parishioners) and because of the size and number people, they have several priests who come to the parish as there are only two there.
The short of it is that there simply is little interest in gathering enough people to comply with the requirements of Summorum Pontificum and the very practical needs of each parish.
There are some parishes which are all EF; the total of all parishes in the US with an EF (including one which has or has had it once every 6 months) is a bit less than 3$ of all parishes, and has been stable for several years. The fact is, the vast majority do not appear to have an interest in it. Where parishes have one EF a week, attendance appears to be lower that at the OF Masses, os there is no significant move for more people to attend.
a priest is allowed to say one Mass per day. By permission, he may say two. By further permission, he may say three. The parish I was in for about 30 years had 4 Masses on the weekend 1 Saturday and 3 Sunday and all were well attended, with the 10:30 Sunday Mass the largest attendance. Changing one of those for a few parishioners is to tell the great majority “tough”. I now have a parish will 11 Masses; 3 Spanish, 1 Vietnamese, and 6 OF; they also have one EF, which attracts somewhere betwee 75 to 90 people. This is a parish of over 3,000 families (not parishioners) and because of the size and number people, they have several priests who come to the parish as there are only two there.
The short of it is that there simply is little interest in gathering enough people to comply with the requirements of Summorum Pontificum and the very practical needs of each parish.
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otjm
Guest
Well, Summorum Pontificum sets out the requirements of the need for a stable group. I have no clue at all as to what you or anyone else means by “a great many people” or “a large group”; of for that matter, “standing room only”. There is a very small parish on the outskirts of a city near me which has the EF regularly, and it is “standing room only” with about 150 people with maybe 5 to 10 standing. I have another parish near me which is large enough that the same amount of people would fill maybe the first 5 rows and be considered almost empty.
For some people and parishes, 150 people would be a large group; for some, 750 might be. and you are right; one never knows what might draw enough people to sustain and EF as a regular Mass in the weekly schedule; given that the EF often shows up in the schedule at noon or later on Sunday likely indicates that it is a small subset of the parish or some parishes combined (as in larger cities).
It is also clear from past discussions in these threads that there are people who either cannot find a way to gather sufficent people, or can’t find sufficient people to have the Mass said regularly. And practically that is too often due to the fact we need more vocations, period.
For some people and parishes, 150 people would be a large group; for some, 750 might be. and you are right; one never knows what might draw enough people to sustain and EF as a regular Mass in the weekly schedule; given that the EF often shows up in the schedule at noon or later on Sunday likely indicates that it is a small subset of the parish or some parishes combined (as in larger cities).
It is also clear from past discussions in these threads that there are people who either cannot find a way to gather sufficent people, or can’t find sufficient people to have the Mass said regularly. And practically that is too often due to the fact we need more vocations, period.
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JoeShlabotnik
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The Mass is beautiful. It does not have to be said in Latin to be beautiful. Thanks be to God! 
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stpurl
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Right. Vernacular is beautiful. Latin is beautiful. Let’s be more diverse and inclusive and have ALL the languages. Including Latin. Pax et bonum.
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otjm
Guest
One might… not me. It doesn’t concern me (which can be taken several ways, I understand). :crazy_face:
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