Are all natural ends good?

[Odell]

I mentioned that all natural ends are good in a discussion. The response to me was "are you sure about that? For some people it may be natural to engage in an alternative lifestyle – is that a “natural end” that is “good”?

I explained that alternative lifestyles are contrary to nature and even then the person is seeking a good. Homosexuality, for instance, the inclination towards love and communion is in itself a good. But the act is disordered.

Am I right and how would you address the comment about alternative “natural” ends?

 

[paduard]

I mentioned that all natural ends are good in a discussion. The response to me was "are you sure about that? For some people it may be natural to engage in an alternative lifestyle – is that a “natural end” that is “good”?

I explained that alternative lifestyles are contrary to nature and even then the person is seeking a good. Homosexuality, for instance, the inclination towards love and communion is in itself a good. But the act is disordered.

Am I right and how would you address the comment about alternative “natural” ends?

I don’t think that you could have addressed your topic in any better way than you have done.
God Bless,
paduard.

 

[drac16]

A common claim that many homosexuals make, especially those who identify as christians, is that they don’t want to sleep around and they value monogamy and commitment. That’s certainly better than being promiscuous, but it’s still wrong. No matter how committed and monogamous someone is, homosexuality is still sinful, according to the Scriptures.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

A common claim that many homosexuals make, especially those who identify as christians, is that they don’t want to sleep around and they value monogamy and commitment. That’s certainly better than being promiscuous, but it’s still wrong. No matter how committed and monogamous someone is, homosexuality is still sinful, according to the Scriptures.

Perhaps you have worded things poorly here.
I believe what you mean is that
(a) “homosexual acts” are personally and seriously sinful if done freely and one knows they are wrong.
(b) “homosexual inclination” is disordered
(c) “Homosexuality” (a condition) and homosexuals (a class of people) are not evil or sinful.

Therefore, as both Pope Francis and Pope Benedict bot said in different ways, those in irregular sexual situations can be graced and growing in God’s love despite the objective sinfulness of their situation. Further, due to the limits of human freedom, living in such monogamous committed relationships may be exactly where God wants those persons to be at this point in time. That does not mean God does not also want them to one day improve on that situation.

We are all sinners. Recognition of that reality is a necessary criterion for belonging to the Catholic Church.

I see no practical pastoral advantage advising Catholic homosexuals that “Commitment is certainly better than being promiscuous, but it’s still wrong.” Most have been painfully aware of that since the age of 13. As is the case with Catholic masturbators, smokers, drinkers, fornicators, drug takers, soldiers who kill, adulterers, those who swear, steal or get excessively irritated proud or angry.
In other words all of us.

 

[John_Martin]

What makes an act human, therefore natural to a human, is not the completion of the action, but the Knowing that accompanies the action.
Physical pleasure is not the goal of human sex, but knowing a specific thing about it.
In the sweat of copulation there is not just the need to feel some feeling, but to know this, “I have worked with all my might and successfully deposited my seed within you for you to take and keep and use and nurture.” and, “I have worked with all my might and successfully taken your seed within me to keep and use and nurture with you.”
It is an intense effort to accomplish something and to know it is done in a mutual intention to use the result, and then knowing success.

Un-natural (humanly speaking) sex is when this knowing is subverted:
“I have given you this” - “I have taken it but have taken steps to kill it because I do not want to use it nor stay with you my whole life to nurture it”.
“I have given you this” - “I have taken it and will now excrete it.”
“I have had pleasure and will now dispose of what I should give you before you can take it.”
“I have given this to no-one except my own hand, and now shower it away”
I have taken nothing from anyone and now sleep alone."

It is not a coincidence that the Scriptures use the phrase, “Adam **knew **Eve his wife”
Knowing makes an act a human act.