Are all properly baptized Protestants also Catholics?

[joemccarron]

As I understand it, through Baptism we become members of the Church. And that would be the Catholic Church.

Since Catholics recognize Baptisms from Protestants as valid if they follow the correct form, are they Catholic?

It would seem that such an adult would be Catholic, but perhaps out of communion. Is that the way we should look at it?

But what if they were baptized as infants - like Lutherans do. Does the Church recognize them as Catholic at least until they can sin or otherwise would receive another sacrament?

I understand that we would not want to call someone who does not think they are Catholic a Catholic, but is that the only reason we wouldn’t?

 

[Church_Militant]

Joe, here’s what the Catechism teaches on this.

**Who belongs to the Catholic Church? **
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Yes, they are Catholics in a sense as they are baptized into the body of Christ…and He, of course, only has one body.

Church says they are just imperfectly joined.

I told my protestant grandfather this and he about spit his coffee all over the table lol. They find this highly offensive.

 

[Bballer32]

To be baptized is not to become a member of the Catholic Church in the strict sense but to become a member of Christ’s Body.

To be Catholic means that you accept all of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church and are bound to ecclesiastical rules and such.

Of course, when an infant is baptized, the God-parents are there to declare the faith for the child. By doing so, the child, if the God-parents pronounce the Catholic Faith, enters FULLY into the Body of Christ.

We would say that Protestants who are baptized are IMPERFECTLY members of Christ’s body, but they are not Catholic.

 

[joemccarron]

To be baptized is not to become a member of the Catholic Church in the strict sense but to become a member of Christ’s Body.

To be Catholic means that you accept all of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church and are bound to ecclesiastical rules and such.

Of course, when an infant is baptized, the God-parents are there to declare the faith for the child. By doing so, the child, if the God-parents pronounce the Catholic Faith, enters FULLY into the Body of Christ.

We would say that Protestants who are baptized are IMPERFECTLY members of Christ’s body, but they are not Catholic.

I am not so sure. If the baptism is valid and the infant is to young to have beliefs about churches or sin then I would think he or she was perfectly members of the Catholic Church. Even if the parents say they will raise the child Protestant. To deny this would seem to deny the objective reality of the baptism.

Once the child is at an age to sin and does so, or form beliefs which reject the church then they are imperfectly joined. But not before, even with a protestant baptism.

 

[Bballer32]

I am not so sure. If the baptism is valid and the infant is to young to have beliefs about churches or sin then I would think he or she was perfectly members of the Catholic Church. Even if the parents say they will raise the child Protestant. To deny this would seem to deny the objective reality of the baptism.

Once the child is at an age to sin and does so, or form beliefs which reject the church then they are imperfectly joined. But not before, even with a protestant baptism.

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian,

Catechism 838 clearly defines that those who are baptized are honored by the Name Christian, not Catholic. It’s the whole Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics logic.

By Baptism, we are Christian, but by belief, we are Catholic.

 

[joemccarron]

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian,

Catechism 838 clearly defines that those who are baptized are honored by the Name Christian, not Catholic. It’s the whole Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics logic.

By Baptism, we are Christian, but by belief, we are Catholic.

I do not think either 837 or 838 are referring to infants who are baptized but are not yet of an age to accept Jesus or Protestantism or Catholicism. In fact 838 explicitly refers to those “who believe in Christ” so it is clearly not referring to infants who have not formed any such beliefs yet.

It would seem an infant baptized protestant is fully Catholic until he or she embraces some volitional act or belief which would separate him or her from the Church.

My reasoning is that only sin separates us from God. And all sin is volitional.

BTW Lenten_ashes: I find the story about your grandfather quite amusing. I wonder how other Protestant churches view Baptized people who do not claim to be part of their church.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Sacramentally yes, juridically no. There’s only one true Church (The Catholic Communion claims to be this; as do Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Church of the East). If a baptism is grace-filled, “valid”, etc. The person baptised belongs to it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I am not so sure. If the baptism is valid and the infant is to young to have beliefs about churches or sin then I would think he or she was perfectly members of the Catholic Church. Even if the parents say they will raise the child Protestant. To deny this would seem to deny the objective reality of the baptism.

Once the child is at an age to sin and does so, or form beliefs which reject the church then they are imperfectly joined. But not before, even with a protestant baptism.

a valid baptism is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. At Catholic baptism though, don’t they promise along with the godparents to raise the baby as a Catholic?
I was baptized in the Episcopal church and that was the only church I knew growing up. I remember being troubled at the time of my confirmation that I was really meant to be confirmed in the Catholic church. That I was erring.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Yes, they are Catholics in a sense as they are baptized into the body of Christ…and He, of course, only has one body.

Church says they are just imperfectly joined.

I told my protestant grandfather this and he about spit his coffee all over the table lol. They find this highly offensive.

Lol, I told my father (who is a Protestant) not to worry, all will be converted to the Catholic faith once in heaven, so you don’t have to be Catholic to get to heaven but if you get to heaven you will be Catholic!!! In fact I’m sending him a link to this post! Lol, Hi dad…

In response to the post, yes, it makes sense, as long as you were properly baptized then you are Catholic whether you like it or not…

 

[Bballer32]

I do not think either 837 or 838 are referring to infants who are baptized but are not yet of an age to accept Jesus or Protestantism or Catholicism. In fact 838 explicitly refers to those “who believe in Christ” so it is clearly not referring to infants who have not formed any such beliefs yet.

It would seem an infant baptized protestant is fully Catholic until he or she embraces some volitional act or belief which would separate him or her from the Church.

My reasoning is that only sin separates us from God. And all sin is volitional.

BTW Lenten_ashes: I find the story about your grandfather quite amusing. I wonder how other Protestant churches view Baptized people who do not claim to be part of their church.

All sacraments are volitional as well. A sacrament has to have two things present: Matter and Form. Under the “form” category exists “intention.” The person must intend to receive the Sacrament.

Therefore, if we stick with the volitional argument, then an infant cannot actually be baptized, since it cannot voice its opinion in being baptized or not. Hence, why the parents and God-parents are present. They voice the volition of the child. Therefore, the God-parents/parents who speak on behalf of the child to be baptized in the Protestant faith will the child to be protestant. Same goes for the Catholic Baptism.

Both are Christian. Only one is Catholic.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The volition argument doesn’t apply. If it did, no child could be baptized, marriage would not be a sacrament for Easterners, the mentally slow could not receive confirmation or Eucharist, and dementia patients could not receive Last Rites, and certain saints could not be forceably ordained to the episcopate.

 

[Bballer32]

The volition argument doesn’t apply. If it did, no child could be baptized, marriage would not be a sacrament for Easterners, the mentally slow could not receive confirmation or Eucharist, and dementia patients could not receive Last Rites, and certain saints could not be forceably ordained to the episcopate.

Volitional in the strict sense of the word means any sign AT ALL that shows the person is freely willing this sacrament. There is intent involved in sacraments.

 

[Contarini]

To be baptized is not to become a member of the Catholic Church in the strict sense but to become a member of Christ’s Body.

To be Catholic means that you accept all of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church and are bound to ecclesiastical rules and such.

Of course, when an infant is baptized, the God-parents are there to declare the faith for the child. By doing so, the child, if the God-parents pronounce the Catholic Faith, enters FULLY into the Body of Christ.

We would say that Protestants who are baptized are IMPERFECTLY members of Christ’s body, but they are not Catholic.

But the “Catholic Church” is another name for “Christ’s Body,” surely.

I’m not sure that the distinction you’re making works.

I get that being 'imperfectly Catholic" is arguably an oxymoron, or at least a paradox. But if it means “imperfectly united to the Catholic Church” it is surely correct.

Edwin

 

[Lenten_ashes]

BTW Lenten_ashes: I find the story about your grandfather quite amusing. I wonder how other Protestant churches view Baptized people who do not claim to be part of their church.

So long as you have accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior you are part of the body of Christ and your denomination doesn’t really matter. You don’t even need to be baptized in many cases… And if you disagree theologically you can just say the Spirit told you to go such and such route and the discussion comes to a abrupt halt. But don’t let your answer be that the Catholic Church says so because they cant accept that. The Holy Spirit can talk to all of them but not the Catholic Church

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Lol, I told my father (who is a Protestant) not to worry, all will be converted to the Catholic faith once in heaven, so you don’t have to be Catholic to get to heaven but if you get to heaven you will be Catholic!!! In fact I’m sending him a link to this post! Lol, Hi dad…

In response to the post, yes, it makes sense, as long as you were properly baptized then you are Catholic whether you like it or not…

LOL, show him this:

youtube.com/watch?v=-4IletJ7-Tw

Jesus is on our side!!!

 

[7_Sorrows]

LOL, show him this:

youtube.com/watch?v=-4IletJ7-Tw

Jesus is on our side!!!

that was funny!

 

[steve_b]

Yes, they are Catholics in a sense as they are baptized into the body of Christ…and He, of course, only has one body.

Church says they are just imperfectly joined.

I told my protestant grandfather this and he about spit his coffee all over the table lol. They find this highly offensive.

Re: Baptism

Baptism in the Catholic Church with all that entails, makes one a Catholic.

Baptism outside the Catholic Church doesn’t make one a Catholic nor makes one a member of the Catholic Church.

If Protestants regardless of stripe are Catholics due to baptism outside the Church, then they could walk off the street and receive the sacraments of the Catholic Church. That’s NOT what the Church teaches.

The bishops teach that scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not exist.

Consider just the following on the sacrament of reconciliation

catholic.com/quickquestions/as-a-protestant-who-wishes-to-stay-focused-on-the-lord-may-i-confess-my-sins-to-a-pri

 

[eamonnroma]

To be baptized is not to become a member of the Catholic Church in the strict sense but to become a member of Christ’s Body.

To be Catholic means that you accept all of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church and are bound to ecclesiastical rules and such.

Of course, when an infant is baptized, the God-parents are there to declare the faith for the child. By doing so, the child, if the God-parents pronounce the Catholic Faith, enters FULLY into the Body of Christ.

We would say that Protestants who are baptized are IMPERFECTLY members of Christ’s body, but they are not Catholic.

They are of course members of the one holy catholic and apostolic church. So they are catholics - they might not be a member of the roman catholic church

 

[steve_b]

They are of course members of the one holy catholic and apostolic church. So they are catholics - they might not be a member of the roman catholic church

The Roman ***rite ***is ~98% of the Catholic Church. The other rites make up the remaining ~2% of the Catholic Church.

making one Catholic Church. Protestants aren’t Catholics .