Are Altars Tables?

[chrisb]

Grace and Peace be with you all,

A dear friend of mine disheartened by the innovations within Catholicism told me that the Church has replaced it’s Altars with Tables. Are Tables Alters? Is this proper?

Thanks and God Bless.

 

[kleary]

Grace and Peace be with you all,

A dear friend of mine disheartened by the innovations within Catholicism told me that the Church has replaced it’s Altars with Tables. Are Tables Alters? Is this proper?

Thanks and God Bless.

Not all of Catholicism has replaced their altars with tables.

Sadly however if you are not an exclusive TLM parish church most likely your altar has been destroyed and replaced with the “cramner table” as we call it.

Ken

 

[Priesttobe]

Hi;
I am not quite sure on that one but it is sad to see it happening.
I have noticed the same thing in my parish, why,why why, do we keep seeing the dumbing down of everything sacred. It seems that they are always looking to make it all seem so ordinary and mundane. If I may be so bold as to say we are seeing the results of a lose of Faith on a massive scale, but there is yet hope, the good Lord will never let us down we must continue to pray and do what we can. I for one will be very much thinking about going to th pius the x if there can be a reconciliation.

 

[John_Lilburne]

There is a credence table and an altar that should be used for Mass. I doubt that many people would be confused about which is which.

 

[whosebob]

A dear friend of mine disheartened by the innovations within Catholicism told me that the Church has replaced it’s Altars with Tables. Are Tables Alters?

JMJ + OBT​

In the Eastern Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, the altar is reverently and traditionally referred to as the “mystical table”, and by such language no disrespect is meant toward the Eucharistic sacrifice, but rather an indication of the supernatural link between the Last Supper and Christ’s suffering and death on the Cross.

However, in an unfortunate many Latin Rite parishes the changes in language and architecture which have resulted in the altar looking and being treated more as a “meal table” than an “altar of sacrifice” reflect a sad and improper shift toward a “horizontal” understanding of Eucharistic liturgy, i.e. the “Eucharist is about us sharing a meal-remembrance of Jesus”, and away from its true meaning – to give honor, glory, and praise to God while enabling us and our personal offerings to be united to the Sacrifice of the Cross made truly present on our altars for the four ends of adoration, thanksgiving, propitiation, and impetration.

In Christ.

IC XC NIKA

 

[Joe_Monahan]

As Bob says, in the East, it is upon the Holy Table that our presbyters offer the Eucharistic Mystery

At the conclusion of the Service of the Holy Mysteries in the Maronite Church, the priest bows before the Holy Table and prays:

Remain in peace, O Holy Table of the Lord; I pray that I may return to you in peace.

May the Sacrifice which I have been blessed to offer upon you forgive my sins, help me to avoid faults and prepare me to stand blameless before the Throne of Christ.

I know not whether I shall ever again be blessed to return to you and again offer this Holy Sacrifice upon you. Remain in peace, O Holy Table of the Lord.

Joe

 

[scylla]

If the Altar will be referred to as a table it must be understood correctly that it is where the Holy Sacrifice is brought to us.

“Reverence, therefore, reverence this table, of which we are all communicants! Christ, slain for us, the sacrificial victim who is placed thereon!” (Homilies on Romans 8:8 [A.D. 391]).

Now if it begins to be spoke of as a meal table, then that is where the abuse creeps in, because at forefront is the meaning of Sacrifice and the Body and Blood of Jesus, which we should be focused on.
When it changes to “our group meal” and “we are the body of Christ” then heresy creeps in.

Altars are tables, not all tables are Altars.
Here is an altar

stpetersbasilica.org/Altars/PapalAltar/Baldacchino-fw.jpg

%between%

In Christ
Scylla

 

[jonnyws]

Just to check I’m correct:

An Altar is an Altar if it’s got five crosses engraved on it, one in each corner and in the center also. The crosses should be crisamated by a bishop and a saints relic should also be sealed inside the Altar and crisamated also.

I also remember asking my priest once what difference it makes that we say Mass on a table (university mass so we’re not allowed Altars or tabernacles). He sayed that it is an Altar, it becomes one when he kisses it at the beginning of the service and ceases with the kiss at the end; an ‘Altar between the kisses’.

 

[Struggling]

Sadly however if you are not an exclusive TLM parish church most likely your altar has been destroyed and replaced with the “cramner table” as we call it.

LOL! I know what you mean. The whole “table” thing can go too far.

But the altar is, properly speaking, an “altar table”. That is to say, its surface was traditionally called “mensa” (table) in Latin and a Permanent Altar (the most solemn kind) was required to have at least four stone legs securely attached arranged like a table (though later bricks or art, etc could fill in the space and cover up the legs). If the table disconnected from its connection to earth for even a moment (ie, the mensa was lifted off the legs, or the legs detatched from the floor) then it had to be reconsecrated.

We used to take our altars very seriously…oh well…

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Often times in the modern Latin Rite, there has been a misplaced emphasis on the “meal aspect” that was put into conflict with the understanding that the Mass is the re-presentation of the Holy Sacrifice of Christ on Cavalry.

Is Mass a “meal”? Yeah, in a way but the Sacrificial aspect is more important. You can’t ditch the vertical and make it all about “community” and such. I’m gonna call a spade a spade-it is modernist nonsense.

When the Easterners refer to the altar as the “Holy Table”, it is a whole other ballgame from the unfortunately too common example of the American Latin Rite idea. I just went (in person finally) to the Divine Liturgy last Sunday and its on a completely higher plane than the nonsense that some folks try to foist on us. While they use a “table” looking altar, it is still more equivalent to the good old style high altars that we used to have in our churches.

I think some of the practices that got introduced into the Latin Church “came” from the East like the table-like altar, the “presider chair” behind the altar, standing for Communion and other parts but unfortunately they did not retain the solemnity and reverence that they have in the East. Nor did they retain their same symbollic meaning or actual usage. I also think it was just an excuse to get away with innovations, make it sound legit but change it to better fit your own agenda. A “vehicle” so to say.

Basically, we often get a “Cranmer table” and other things but sly liturgists can just say we got it from the East-albeit without Eastern reverence and mystery.

 

[Pius_X]

Isn’t “Altar” latin for “table”?

 

[LuxAurumque]

Our wonderful late Holy Pontiff, Piux XII, had this to say about the Altar in his encyclical
Mediator Dei:

1. Assuredly it is a wise and most laudable thing to return in spirit and affection to the sources of the sacred liturgy. For research in this field of study, by tracing it back to its origins, contributes valuable assistance towards a more thorough and careful investigation of the significance of feast-days, and of the meaning of the texts and sacred ceremonies employed on their occasion. But it is neither wise nor laudable to reduce everything to antiquity by every possible device. Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings; and lastly were he to disdain and reject polyphonic music or singing in parts, even where it conforms to regulations issued by the Holy See.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Amen. Mediator Dei should be read by every supposed “liturgist”. While it is nothing ex cathedra, I think there is some very valuable practical liturgical wisdom contained in that document.

Read the Sacrosanctum Concilium in light of Mediator Dei and other earlier documents and try to say that Vatican II called for all this radical change in the Roman Rite.

 

[steve_green_2]

Often times in the modern Latin Rite, there has been a misplaced emphasis on the “meal aspect” that was put into conflict with the understanding that the Mass is the re-presentation of the Holy Sacrifice of Christ on Cavalry.

Is Mass a “meal”? Yeah, in a way but the Sacrificial aspect is more important. You can’t ditch the vertical and make it all about “community” and such. I’m gonna call a spade a spade-it is modernist nonsense.

When the Easterners refer to the altar as the “Holy Table”, it is a whole other ballgame from the unfortunately too common example of the American Latin Rite idea. I just went (in person finally) to the Divine Liturgy last Sunday and its on a completely higher plane than the nonsense that some folks try to foist on us. While they use a “table” looking altar, it is still more equivalent to the good old style high altars that we used to have in our churches.

I think some of the practices that got introduced into the Latin Church “came” from the East like the table-like altar, the “presider chair” behind the altar, standing for Communion and other parts but unfortunately they did not retain the solemnity and reverence that they have in the East. Nor did they retain their same symbollic meaning or actual usage. I also think it was just an excuse to get away with innovations, make it sound legit but change it to better fit your own agenda. A “vehicle” so to say.

Basically, we often get a “Cranmer table” and other things but sly liturgists can just say we got it from the East-albeit without Eastern reverence and mystery.

Couldn’t agree more !!!