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Moonstruck888
Guest
Interesting.Yes, I try to treat others as I would be treated.
So, if you had your way you’d be made homeless and starve if you lost your job so the well off don’t have to pay tax, you’d die from treatable illnesses and you’d be on the business end of a Tommahawk missile?
This present administration is a hell of a lot more enlightened than the last one. The G.W. Bush administration was the greatest threat to World peace since the cold war ended.America’s foreign policy is formed 'way “above my pay grade”. You can, however, rest assured that I don’t support this present administration.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Really? How very convenient for you.Well, Moonstruck, you were discussing those afraid of us, now you’re bringing up those who are against us. These are two different subjects, in my mind.
If CIA sponsored military coups that replace democratically elected leaders with military juntas are what you consider ordinary negoitation, I’m very glad that you got into praying instead of politics.I think I see a labeling of ordinary negotiations as ‘bullying’.
Hmm… Intersesting. I must have missed the part of the Geneva convention that sanctions waterboarding, sensory depravation and extraordinary rendition.They’re POWs and they’re accorded the conditions required by the Geneva Convention.
Can you show me where I can obtain a copy?
You give them crippling loans in return for the sale of their utilites to American corporations if that’s what you mean.Because God is love and we feed a lot of other countries.
When he does, I should look busy if I were you.Oh, I’m sure that in good time, he’ll be along not only to do that very thing but also to protect Jerusalem and chastise all the world’s citizens who’ve mocked Him and His Heavenly Father.
This is related to the OP, and it’s not fueled by hate, simply an attempt to make you and those who think like you see reason… The OP was about whether US society is more or less evolved. I am giving examples to show you that it’s not. If you operate on the same principles and methods as the “bad guys” then how are you distinguishable from them?Look, I know you have an ax to grind. But, why don’t you start your own hate thread, if you’re not going to discuss the OP, here?
The prostitution of Europe by the USA has caused an awful lot of anger and resentment here, not envy. The song below reached the top of the popular music charts over here in the 80’s. It’s about the glee certain people felt when Chernobyl occurred and the USA got a taste of the threat of radioactive fallout for a change, a taste of the medicine the USA has been dishing out.
We serve an old man in a dry season
A lighthouse keeper in the desert sun
Dreamers of sleepers and white treason
We dream of rain and the history of the gun.
There’s a lighthouse in the middle of Prussia
A white house in a red square.
Living in films for the sake of Russia
A Kino Runner for the DDR
And the 52 daughters of the revolution
Turn the gold to chrome
Gift… Nothing to lose
Stuck inside of memphis with the Mobile Homes, sing:
Mother Russia! Mother Russia! Mother Russia rain down down down!
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donsnow
Guest
Neat post.So? It’s a discussion forum, and within the spirit of the rules for me to reply to any post.
We’re all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Then you’re incorrect.
zompist.com/latam.html
Hell, US citizens have reason to fear the USA. In Michigan alone there are 1.5 million homeless people out of a ten million population. That’s equivalent to 9 million people being homeless in the UK. There would be a revolution if it ever got that bad here…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Ewen_Cameron
It was not pleasant conversing with you.
Soon, following the example of Greece which is bankrupt from its Socialist government, the UK and other EU nations will find themselves no longer economically able to continue subsidizing what should have been left to the private sector.
Leaving you with that thought, I now depart this thread. I said my say about America and don’t have to put up with people who just like to bash America without seeing both sides of a topic.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Soon, following the example of Greece which is bankrupt from its Socialist government, the UK and other EU nations will find themselves no longer economically able to continue subsidizing what should have been left to the private sector.
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tjm190
Guest
Greece is bankrupt because it’s spending is completely out of whack with it’s tax base, and the hands of European governments are tied since they can’t respond to a bad economy with monetary policy because the Euro is not controlled by any individual nation nor with monetary policy because of austerity.Actually, Greece is bankrupt because of short selling and hedge funding, 80% of which occurs in London and New York.
I hardly think the global banking system ought to be run for the benefit of two cities that account for 0.3% of the world population.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Believe it or not I actually sympathize with you. There’s no more unfortunate position to be in than that of trying to defend a position that’s indefensible…It was not pleasant conversing with you.
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tjm190
Guest
Check your source- there’s been a decimal mistake.Hell, US citizens have reason to fear the USA. In Michigan alone there are 1.5 million homeless people out of a ten million population. That’s equivalent to 9 million people being homeless in the UK. There would be a revolution if it ever got that bad here…
swivel.com/charts/2298-Homeless-in-America
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Hardly. Short selling and hedge funding have bankrupted the USA and half of the EU. It’s time the banking system was regualted again, as it was after the last time this happened.Greece is bankrupt because it’s spending is completely out of whack with it’s tax base, and the hands of European governments are tied since they can’t respond to a bad economy with monetary policy because the Euro is not controlled by any individual nation nor with monetary policy because of austerity.
lankarising.com/2010/04/greece-melting-down-following-iceland.html
You see, short selling gives financial markets a direct interest in seeing failure occur. Combine that with hedge funding, the financial equivalent of Russian Roulette, and you have a situation that anyone capable of passing grade school could see benefits certain ultra rich interest groups at the expense of everyone else.
The current situation in the USA and the Eurozone illustrates perfectly that the people running the financial sector are not fit for purpose. They either didn’t see this coming, in which case they are too incompetent to be trusted or they knew it was coming and milked the situation, in which case they are too wicked to be trusted.
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tjm190
Guest
"Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. " From your article. All short selling does is let the rest of us know what the professional investors think is going to happen to a sector of the economy- and when Greece’s bonds are rated ‘junk’ it should be pretty obvious.Hardly. Short selling and hedge funding have bankrupted the USA and half of the EU. It’s time the banking system was regualted again, as it was after the last time this happened.
lankarising.com/2010/04/greece-melting-down-following-iceland.html
You see, short selling gives financial markets a direct interest in seeing failure occur. Combine that with hedge funding, the financial equivalent of Russian Roulette, and you have a situation that anyone capable of passing grade school could see benefits certain ultra rich interest groups at the expense of everyone else.
The current situation in the USA and the Eurozone illustrates perfectly that the people running the financial sector are not fit for purpose. They either didn’t see this coming, in which case they are too incompetent to be trusted or they knew it was coming and milked the situation, in which case they are too wicked to be trusted.
Banks don’t get regulated because regulations provide a disadvantage- we spent the entire period from the 70’s-90’s deregulating our banks because they complained, correctly, that our regulations hurt their ability to compete with the European banks.
Short selling and hedge funding didn’t force Greece to overspend
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Yes, it seems your right…Check your source- there’s been a decimal mistake.
swivel.com/charts/2298-Homeless-in-America
It still makes very grim reading though…
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Moonstruck888
Guest
What short selling does if give people a vested interest in making things fail, and also causing panic by predicting their failure. That is what’s called a self reinforcing positive feedback loop."Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. " From your article. All short selling does is let the rest of us know what the professional investors think is going to happen to a sector of the economy- and when Greece’s bonds are rated ‘junk’ it should be pretty obvious.
Banks don’t get regulated because regulations provide a disadvantage- we spent the entire period from the 70’s-90’s deregulating our banks because they complained, correctly, that our regulations hurt their ability to compete with the European banks.
Short selling and hedge funding didn’t force Greece to overspend
Now, it should be pretty obvious that politicians use figures collated by their bankers and economists to determine fiscal policy in their budgets. When the bankers are selling them data built on a house of cards, that is when serious trouble occurs.
For example, in the UK house prices have been rising at a rapid rate over the last fifteen years, reaching inflation rates of up to ten percent per annum. Wage inflation in the UK has been pretty steady over the last fifteen years up to 2008, at around 2.4%.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that this is a bubble that is not sustainable. Sure enough, the construction industry in the UK has now run into very serious trouble indeed, causing a hundred and sixty three thousand job losses.
live.scri.salford.ac.uk/?p=1065
The simple fact is that unless we start regulating financial markets, human nature is going to get us into trouble over and over again…
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tjm190
Guest
Ah, so what you mean was the financial collapse is what caused the crisis. Partially true, but Greece had been overspending for a very long time.What short selling does if give people a vested interest in making things fail, and also causing panic by predicting their failure. That is what’s called a self reinforcing positive feedback loop.
Now, it should be pretty obvious that politicians use figures collated by their bankers and economists to determine fiscal policy in their budgets. When the bankers are selling them data built on a house of cards, that is when serious trouble occurs.
For example, in the UK house prices have been rising at a rapid rate over the last fifteen years, reaching inflation rates of up to ten percent per annum. Wage inflation in the UK has been pretty steady over the last fifteen years up to 2008, at around 2.4%.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that this is a bubble that is not sustainable. Sure enough, the construction industry in the UK has now run into very serious trouble indeed, causing a hundred and sixty three thousand job losses.
live.scri.salford.ac.uk/?p=1065
The simple fact is that unless we start regulating financial markets, human nature is going to get us into trouble over and over again…
Agreed on the need for some regulation, although again- regulations are always disadvantageous in the short run. America had, to an extent, gotten banking right during the 30’s-50’s but our banks couldn’t compete with the relatively unregulated European banks so we deregulated. Unless everyone regulates, regulation looks like a bad idea.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
Well, the USA won in the end out of that one… By the 1950’s we were in hock to the USA for the next 60 years…Ah, so what you mean was the financial collapse is what caused the crisis. Partially true, but Greece had been overspending for a very long time.
Agreed on the need for some regulation, although again- regulations are always disadvantageous in the short run. America had, to an extent, gotten banking right during the 30’s-50’s but our banks couldn’t compete with the relatively unregulated European banks so we deregulated. Unless everyone regulates, regulation looks like a bad idea.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Must be nice to know everything—especially about a country you do not inhabit.Believe it or not I actually sympathize with you. There’s no more unfortunate position to be in than that of trying to defend a position that’s indefensible…
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tjm190
Guest
You give us too much credit- European banks are plenty competitive. You also seem to believe we are capable of placing ‘millions and millions’ into poverty without hurting your economy by creating a run on a currency with a fixed exchange rate ><.Well, the USA won in the end out of that one… By the 1950’s we were in hock to the USA for the next 60 years…
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Moonstruck888
Guest
For one thing, the exchange rate between the dollar and pound is not quite as fixed as you seem to think. If you look at the graph below, you’ll see, in 1968, the results of Wilson’s refusal to involve the UK in the Vietnam farce.You give us too much credit- European banks are plenty competitive. You also seem to believe we are capable of placing ‘millions and millions’ into poverty without hurting your economy by creating a run on a currency with a fixed exchange rate ><.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Between CIA sponsored military coups and economic bullying, I don’t think there’s any doubt of that. The replacement of democratically elected Salvadore Allende with the dictator Augusto Pinochet for example, destroyed the lives of many people.
Britain actually only discharged ourselves of the the swingeing loan conditions imposed on us by the USA during the lend lease agreement in the last decade. We also had to sign over the patents for many British inventions to the USA as part of that agreement.
I have to give the USA credit for political accumen. The US handling of World War II was one of the most cunningly and slickly operated pieces of political and economic chicanery in recorded history. Exactly the right leverage applied at exactly the right time in exactly the right places.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
The internet makes an excellent research tool.Must be nice to know everything—especially about a country you do not inhabit.
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Moonstruck888
Guest
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10141121.stm
I can actually see where this jingoistic unilateralism comes from, from the rubbish taught in your very schools.
I can actually see where this jingoistic unilateralism comes from, from the rubbish taught in your very schools.
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tjm190
Guest
The straight lines represent a fixed exchange rate- where the government names a price and the government sells its own currency for foreign currency when demand is greater then supply at that price and the opposite using its stores of foreign currency. The jump downward in 1968 represents the British government deciding that it could not maintain the pound at that value- and please, that jump is easily dwarfed by the 1950 jump- and for the US to ‘crash’ the pound it would have had to have a significant store of pounds in the first place and then flood the market with them- I see no evidence of this. Further more Britain’s GDP saw no decline during that period. Furthermore, Britain repaying it’s debt to America should have resulted in a decline in the value of the pound anyway-For one thing, the exchange rate between the dollar and pound is not quite as fixed as you seem to think. If you look at the graph below, you’ll see, in 1968, the results of Wilson’s refusal to involve the UK in the Vietnam farce.
http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollar-verylong.gif
Britain had to pay the US in dollars. Britain had pounds. So, Britain goes to the market and buys some dollars with pounds to pay the US. This increases the supply of pounds and decreases the supply of dollars- so, the value of the pound with respect to the dollar decreases
So are you blaming the United States for Britain’s decision to devalue, Britain’s repayment of its debt, or the recession that didn’t happen?
You understand that Allende had all but become a dictator himself, right? He all but abolished the countries courts and took over more then a few industries.Between CIA sponsored military coups and economic bullying, I don’t think there’s any doubt of that. The replacement of democratically elected Salvadore Allende with the dictator Augusto Pinochet for example, destroyed the lives of many people.
Because the lend-lease debt totaled over 3/4 of the UK’s GDP initially, it was negotiated down in exchange for forgiven royalties on some patents and the the patents. A 50 year payment plan (with an interest rate of 2%, well below inflationary expectations mind you) was arranged- had we asked for a reasonable interest rate or faster payment, or nor reduced the debt by 50% in exchange for those patents the UK would have had a major issue.Britain actually only discharged ourselves of the the swingeing loan conditions imposed on us by the USA during the lend lease agreement in the last decade. We also had to sign over the patents for many British inventions to the USA as part of that agreement.
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